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chadau79
Auburn Fan
Member since Sep 2009
2380 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

it's a flawed argument on your part anyhow if the letter of the law is invalid in your world.


The letter of the law is not invalid in my world. But just saying you would do what the law say doesn't give insight into someones beliefs. If abortion was illegal, would everyone throw their hands up and say " oh well, it's the law."






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Keltic Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2006
3938 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


I did not bring the Catholic Church into this discussion. But once a pro lifer did, and used its "teachings of the faith" as the reason behind his beliefs, I was simply commenting that the Catholic Church seemingly had..has..2 different perspectives when it comes to "innocent children". One was a cover up at all "costs", said costs being the mental & physical well being of "innocent children" and the other a hard core,black & white condemnation of abortion of "innocent children". Apples to apples to me.





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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
26181 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

I was simply commenting that the Catholic Church seemingly had..has..2 different perspectives when it comes to "innocent children". One was a cover up at all "costs", said costs being the mental & physical well being of "innocent children" and the other a hard core,black & white condemnation of abortion of "innocent children". Apples to apples to me.


All will fall short of the example of Christ. You are correct about the monstrous hypocrisy of elements of the RCC - it has cost them and it will continue to cost them in terms of prestige, trust, etc. In my opinion the Church stopped being a true force for good when it got too deeply involved in European and World political affairs - well over a thousand years ago. The pedophile priest scandal will haunt them for the foreseeable future.

This does not change the fact that if a person truly believes that life begins at conception, or prior to 4, 6, 10, 16, 28 weeks of gestation, they are warranted (and justified) in arguing for the protection of these unborn children.

You do not share these beliefs and I respect that. You indicated earlier that your sister did not terminate "a child", because you all did not consider this particular pregnancy to consistute a child, at least not yet. However, you can understand that opinions will vary from:

1.) It was a child, and your sister had the right to terminate the pregnancy under the circumstances, to

2.) No matter the circumstances, it was a murder of an unborn child

...and everything in between. People can even hold 2.) and not necessarily be judgmental - your sister's situation is one of the emotional hammers the pro-choice political movement uses to bash people who are pro-life. While it consitutes a very small percentage of abortions, restriction of any abortion right, whatsoever, is always, always, always argued to your sister's relatively uncommon situation.

As far as the issue goes - it is one of those examples of a very decisive question that, by its very nature, is subject to very little negotiation/conciliation.

In the end, all we can do is (try to, at least) treat each other as other members of the human family, with strength, weakesses, flaws and foibles. Ultimately, it is all we can do.



This post was edited on 11/19 at 7:33 pm


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BoredOne
LSU Fan
North LA
Member since Mar 2012
73 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


I don't think abortion should be used as a means of birth control so to speak. If I wound up pregnant in this point of my life where I'm able to support a family, so be it. Even though I don't want children (in the sense that I don't plan to have any intentionally and will take all precautionary steps needed)if I wound up getting pregnant, I would accept that I was going to have a child and plan accordingly. BUT...if I was in the situation that Keltic Tiger's sister was in, there is no way in Hell that I would put myself through that.

I think that situation is every woman's worst nightmare. All of us would probably respond differently. I just know that for myself there is no way I could not only deal with the rape but then have to deal with knowing that 9 months later I would have to go through giving birth to that bastard's child. My God, in Keltic Tiger's sisters' situation, she wouldn't have even been physically able to do so given the extent of her injuries. Even if she had delivered via C-section that's still major surgery that sidelines you for a bit.

While there are situations where I feel like abortion is acceptable, it has to be left up to each individual woman to choose what her breaking point is. Like I said in the beginning, I would not personally use it as a method of birth control but if my life were in danger or if the fetus had been conceived through rape then I would consider it.

What about this scenario though...You fall into a high risk category because of family history, age, etc. You have genetic testing done and the fetus has problems. Not manageable problems, but problems like the kid will need constant care and never be able to lead a normal life. Like never be able to go to the bathroom alone level of not a normal life. The mother and her husband both work and need both salaries in order to make it. What then??? You either have an abortion or commit yourself to that lifetime of emotional, physical, and financial commitment. And what happens after you die? Who is left in charge then? Another family member or does that child become a ward of the state?

I said in the beginning, or it could be implied, that I don't know if it's something I would ever personally do but I'm not comfortable legislating how another woman should live her life.

ETA: And Keltic Tiger, I'm sorry for using your sister as an example. No woman should ever have to be used as an example of such a situation. I can't even imagine the horror that she and your family went through. My thoughts are with her and your family and I hope you are all doing well today.



This post was edited on 11/19 at 7:24 pm


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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
34371 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


it was bumped


This post was edited on 11/19 at 7:30 pm


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BoredOne
LSU Fan
North LA
Member since Mar 2012
73 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Sorry, just read through the bulk of it today.







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asurob1
Florida State Fan
On the edge of the galaxy
Member since May 2009
9831 posts
 Online 

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

it was bumped


you mean you have had enough?

:D






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
34371 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


dude 31 pages of abortion debate is enough for me in a couple of days.





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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
34371 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


that's ok I was hoping it wouldn't be bumped but I don't care still think this thread will die soon






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Keltic Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2006
3938 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Boredone, there is no need to apologize. I deliberately brought my sister into this discussion as I wanted to emphasize that this issue is not all bout sermons, expressions..words..of faith,cold scientific facts, emotional discourse, etc. My sister is a live human being who experienced this horror real life..and she is not the only one out there by any means. Point being everyone here needs to be careful when throwing around certain words & phrases, as this issue is all bout real people in the real world. It is not simply political or religious beliefs to be discussed in a generic context.





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