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GREENHEAD22 
LSU Fan
LafayettebywayofBush
Member since Nov 2009
5827 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 10:18 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
the constitution must be circumvented in order to preserve it.
 
Jesus Christ man. People like you are why the secession petitions are going around. Try thinking for sure self for once. If you truly believe that I am ashamed to call you an American.
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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
89940 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 10:52 pm to FightinTiger)
They're on the same side.
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Gmorgan4982
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
89940 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 10:54 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
Lincoln understood that in times of crises, the constitution must be circumvented in order to preserve it.
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MStant1
LSU Fan
New York, NY
Member since Sep 2010
4056 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 11:10 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
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RollTide1987 
Alabama Fan
Senoia, Georgia
Member since Nov 2009
17691 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 11:13 pm to MStant1)
I'm curious as to how these anti-Lincolnites would have gone about fighting the Civil War.
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MStant1
LSU Fan
New York, NY
Member since Sep 2010
4056 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 11:15 pm to RollTide1987)
Not fighting?
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MrTide33 
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
1408 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 11:15 pm to FightinTiger)
For one thing, liberal and conservative values change. When liberals get what they want they become conservatives. When conservatives lose what they want they become liberals. Whether or not youre conservative depends on the current values
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RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Senoia, Georgia
Member since Nov 2009
17691 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 11:32 pm to MStant1)
quote:
Not fighting?
Ah...so you would have rather allowed the South to leave and stay gone, thus destroying any chance of democracy ever catching on in Europe and changing the course of history forever? Got it!
And if you think I'm just making shite up, you're deluding yourself. Britain and France were actively cheering on the Confederacy throughout the conflict. Not because they thought the North oppressive or because they wanted cotton at cheaper the rates, but because they saw the United States as a direct threat to their imperial power. Divided, the United States wasn't much of a threat and probably would have eventually dissolved into multiple sovereignties, thus making North America resemble the map of Europe.
To not fight would have invited the destruction of the United States and further division of the Confederacy when states didn't like where the central government was steering the greater whole.
That is what Lincoln talked about in his Gettysburg Address. This wasn't just a fight over the future of a single nation, but the future of democracy itself.
This post was edited on 11/13 at 11:34 pm
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intel
Member since Nov 2012
27 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:06 am to FightinTiger)
Liberal vs Conservative isn't a viable juxtaposition when looking at the two political parties in the days of Abraham Lincoln. Extrapolated to today's ideolgy, both parties were conservative. What happened in the early 20th Century is that leftism/statism began to creep into the democrat party, spawned by believers in Marx and Engel's Manifesto written over 50 years earlier. Although there were the Illuminati, but they were an ideology onto itself.
Of course what did separate the two political party's in the 1800's was the slavery issue. And that didn't change, as republicans voted in larger percentages in both Houses of Congress for the 1964 Civil Rights Act. In fact the democrats filibustered the Act, led by Robert Byrd, (D-WV). And we can't forget that the KKK was created by the democrats as their terror organization designed to punish and kill blacks and republican supporters. Where republicans and blacks parted ways was with entitlements, or more specifically unconstitutional specific welfare. At which point the democrats essentially put blacks on their plantation. Republicans were for freedom for all, but not unconstitutional welfare for specific groups.
We have to be careful when talking about, or using dictionary definitions where liberal and conservative is concerned. Or one being in favor of 'change' and the other one, 'status quo'. The left often uses this subterfuge to their advantage. For example, take the Soviet Union. When the Bolsheviks won the revolution and took over Russia, installing communism, they were called liberals, since they wanted the system changed. Then when the Soviet Union crumbled and Gorbachev instituted 'Glasnost', the old communists were against it, e.g., against that change. Now they were on both ends of change, being for the 1st and against the 2nd, but their ideology hadn't changed at all. They were communists in both instances. American political ideology's are more nuanced than a simple dictinary definition. Today, if you wanted to look up liberal ideolgy in a dictionary, you would have to look under marxism and keynesianism. Conservatism in the dictionary would be found under liberalism, to wit: free enterprise economy, limited government, property rights, religious freedom, firearms freedom, love of liberty, etc. All things repubicans champion today.
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intel
Member since Nov 2012
27 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:21 am to joshnorris14)
Teddy Roosevelt was still a capitalist, he simply sought to break up the big Trusts or conglomerates, which were stifling competition. He was a life member of the National Rifle Association and loved to kill Buffalo and other animals. He also rather enjoyed fighting in war. He wouldn't make a very good liberal by today's standards.
We have to be very careful in distinguishing between Teddy Roosevelt the progressive (small l) and the modern democrat party Progressive (big L). Big L Progressive takes its lineage from the Communist movement.
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EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
22547 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:51 am to Gmorgan4982)
quote:
They're on the same side.
Wilson and FDR agree with this.
Those two frickers are smiling in hell right now at what they created, especially that racist FDR.
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EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
22547 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 11:54 am to intel)
quote:
Of course what did separate the two political party's in the 1800's was the slavery issue. And that didn't change, as republicans voted in larger percentages in both Houses of Congress for the 1964 Civil Rights Act. In fact the democrats filibustered the Act, led by Robert Byrd, (D-WV). And we can't forget that the KKK was created by the democrats as their terror organization designed to punish and kill blacks and republican supporters. Where republicans and blacks parted ways was with entitlements, or more specifically unconstitutional specific welfare. At which point the democrats essentially put blacks on their plantation. Republicans were for freedom for all, but not unconstitutional welfare for specific groups.
We have to be careful when talking about, or using dictionary definitions where liberal and conservative is concerned. Or one being in favor of 'change' and the other one, 'status quo'. The left often uses this subterfuge to their advantage. For example, take the Soviet Union. When the Bolsheviks won the revolution and took over Russia, installing communism, they were called liberals, since they wanted the system changed. Then when the Soviet Union crumbled and Gorbachev instituted 'Glasnost', the old communists were against it, e.g., against that change. Now they were on both ends of change, being for the 1st and against the 2nd, but their ideology hadn't changed at all. They were communists in both instances. American political ideology's are more nuanced than a simple dictinary definition. Today, if you wanted to look up liberal ideolgy in a dictionary, you would have to look under marxism and keynesianism. Conservatism in the dictionary would be found under liberalism, to wit: free enterprise economy, limited government, property rights, religious freedom, firearms freedom, love of liberty, etc. All things repubicans champion today.
This is correct, but you will get blasted by the true believers here.
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DEANintheYAY 
Cal State Fullerton Fan
LEFT COAST
Member since Jan 2008
27771 posts
 Online
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:00 pm to FightinTiger)
If anyone is serious about this topic they should read this book:
The Rise of Southern Republicans
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FightinTiger 
Georgia Tech Fan
wat
Member since Oct 2003
7669 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 1:06 pm to DEANintheYAY)
Thanks for the reference!
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intel
Member since Nov 2012
27 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 4:51 pm to EZE Tiger Fan)
Sorry, but the Klan was created by the democrap party as their terror mechanism. It was designed to punish and kill blacks and republicans. Byrd, who led the democrap filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, was a democrap to the end.
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intel
Member since Nov 2012
27 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 5:00 pm to Bayou Sam)
Yes, interpolated to modern day, the Federalists were Conservatives and the anti-Federalists were today's libertarians. There was no party at our Founding that emulates today's democrap party. Even the democrat party that sprang up with Andrew Jackson (yes Jefferson was a libertarian) is a far cry from today's democrap party. Today's democrap party is an early 20th century invention, beginning with Wilson.
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intel
Member since Nov 2012
27 posts
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 8:41 pm to Interception)
There were democrats who switched to the republican party, but it wasn't because of racism, it was because of the democrap party's lurch ot the left. Most were ardent anti-communists. Three of those who switched were: Ronald Reagan, Jean Kirkpatrick, and Bob Bennet. Kirkpatrick was Reagan's UN Ambassador and Bennet was Reagan'a Secty of Education.
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Bestbank Tiger 
Tulane Fan
Landmass Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2005
15767 posts
Online
| re: At what point in history did Democrats and Republicans switch sides? (Posted on 11/15/12 at 8:48 pm to FightinTiger)
quote:
Thanks for the reference!
Merle & Earl Black are two of the top political scientists in the country and do a lot of specific work regarding the South.
Some other good reading:
"The Mind of the South" by W.J. Cash
"I'll Take My Stand" by a group of Southern professors
"Southern Politics" by V.O Key
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