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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31805 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Honest questions (no flame): Do you believe that Obama will take serious measures to reduce entitlements in the form of welfare, food stamps and extended unemployment benefits, elimination of Obama-phones, etc. in his next four years in office?


Meh, your dicking around with the little stuff. You want to get serious you need to be talking SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. Not piddly arse "obama phones" which is actually a GOP plan that Reagan started and GWB expanded. And Romney never addressed any plan for addressing any of those either.

quote:

If more revenue is generated by elimination of Bush tax cuts and other tax increases, do you think that Obama will take this extra income and apply it to existing debt reduction?


Course not. He will shove it up his own ass. Stupid question gets stupid response.






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rob0710
LSU Fan
LA
Member since Oct 2004
172 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Am i right in that raising/lowing taxes is not creating the deficit? It the spending?

Several on here have called me an idiot for this statement.


I've been arguing this. Good luck.






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LSUAlum2001
LSU Fan
Tier BP
Member since Aug 2003
26931 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Seems absurd that he would cut it off in 2007.


I'm surprised they didn't say 1980-1992 and 2000-2008.



This post was edited on 11/13 at 1:39 pm


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molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
26311 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:


Paying a bit more now would do nothing to prevent you taking in the arse in 5-10 years.



this is absolutely correct...if they don't stop the spending, they can raise taxes to 100% of everyone's income and it won't matter...the logic of these people about raising taxes is astounding




it isn't so bad as all of that - simpson bowles offers a real road-map to cutting spending and raising revenue (mostly thru eliminating loopholes/deductions)

maybe with the focus taken away from Obama getting re-elected both parties will be less focused on defeating or re-electing him and more focused on coming to a real compromise... the last go around there was a refusal to address revenue at all.






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tketaco
LSU Fan
University Lakes
Member since Jan 2010
8090 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


Forward!





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DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8261 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Meh, your dicking around with the little stuff. You want to get serious you need to be talking SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. Not piddly arse "obama phones" which is actually a GOP plan that Reagan started and GWB expanded


Fair enough...do you think Obama will actually place serious cuts on all of the big entitlements such as Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare/Food Stamps/Extended Unemployment?

quote:

quote:If more revenue is generated by elimination of Bush tax cuts and other tax increases, do you think that Obama will take this extra income and apply it to existing debt reduction? Course not. He will shove it up his own ass. Stupid question gets stupid response.


What has Obama done to illustrate any serious actions relative to debt and/or deficit...not said, DONE?






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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
15106 posts
 Online 

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Am i right in that raising/lowing taxes is not creating the deficit? It the spending?

Several on here have called me an idiot for this statement.




You're not an idiot for saying it. It is right that in order to have a deficit you have to spend, but it is very short-sighted. Sure, if the government didn't spend any money, then there would not be a deficit. BUT there also wouldn't be a government.

The fact that we have a government and that government is not going away, means we have to fund it. Now what level of government is needed and the corresponding spending and taxation needed is an appropriate debate.






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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31805 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

maybe with the focus taken away from Obama getting re-elected both parties will be less focused on defeating or re-electing him and more focused on coming to a real compromise... the last go around there was a refusal to address revenue at all.

Would be nice.

quote:

simpson bowles offers a real road-map to cutting spending and raising revenue


Yep.



This post was edited on 11/13 at 1:49 pm


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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31805 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Fair enough...do you think Obama will actually place serious cuts on all of the big entitlements such as Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare/Food Stamps/Extended Unemployment?


I do not know. I would hope so and we will see soon. The GOP refusing to even consider the revenue side short circuited the process last go round though.

quote:

What has Obama done to illustrate any serious actions relative to debt and/or deficit...not said, DONE?


What has either party done? Did Romney lay out any plans or ideas to reform entitlement?







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DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8261 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Did Romney lay out any plans or ideas to reform entitlement?


Romney is not the president...does not apply.






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14387 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

This is exactly what I have been saying and why I supported Obama's plan over Romney's. I have said over and over I would rather pay a bit more now than get bent over and take it in the arse with austerity measures in 5-10 years.
Why did it take Obama 4 years to come up with his plan, and can you explain to me where in his plan the austerity measures are? Austerity measures are also known as entitlement reforms. What entitlement reforms has Obama proposed that will close trillion dollar annual deficits? We don't spend enough on other programs to eliminate the deficit if we eliminate all non-entitlement spending except paying interest on our debt. We can't tax the rich and get ourselves out of debt because the rich do not earn enough income in any given year to eliminate the deficit. Where will the additional revenue come from to eliminate the deficits if we can't get enough taxes from the rich? The only source is the non-rich, and where in Obama's proposed plans are the taxes on the non-rich?

If you can't comprehend that the author was saying that Obama's plan will not avoid a complete collapse, then you deserve what you voted for.






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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
31805 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Poodlebrain


So you think tax cuts without entitlement reform will get the job done? Because that was pretty much Romney's platform since he yapped a lot about cuts and said nothing about how he would reform entitlement.

I see why you named yourself poodlebrain now.






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molsusports
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2004
26311 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Why did it take Obama 4 years to come up with his plan, and can you explain to me where in his plan the austerity measures are? Austerity measures are also known as entitlement reforms. What entitlement reforms has Obama proposed that will close trillion dollar annual deficits?


Boehner and Obama sounded interested in making a $4 trillion dollar deal to cut the deficit - which would have lowered spending by raising the age of Medicare enrollment to 67 and reducing Social Security cost of living increases. They were haggling over how much additional revenue (between 800 billion and 1.2 trillion) would have been a part of this but the whole thing was derailed at any suggestion taxes would have to increase.

As Simpson Bowles pointed out (and any bipartisan panel or agreement will conclude IMO) spending will have to decrease significantly and taxes will have to be raised at least a little bit. And really they can afford to be (in spite of what some people on the internet would have you believe taxes as a percentage of GDP have been very low under Obama - much lower than under Reagan for example)






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
14855 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

Meh, your dicking around with the little stuff. You want to get serious you need to be talking SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. Not piddly arse "obama phones" which is actually a GOP plan that Reagan started and GWB expanded. And Romney never addressed any plan for addressing any of those either.


That's only true to the Obama loyalists that regurgitate that line constantly without taking the 5 seconds it took me to find these gems:

quote:

For the people who are already retired or 55 years of age and older, nothing changes. With Social Security--if you will, the 2.0 version for the next generations coming up-- I'd lower the rate of inflation growth in the benefits received by higher-income recipients and keep the rate as it is now for lower income recipients. And I'd also add a year or two to the retirement age under Social Security. With regards to Medicare, again, for higher-income recipients, lower benefit, a premium support program which allows people to buy either current standard Medicare or a private plan.


LINK

quote:

But he went on: “What I’d do with Social Security is say this: that again, people with higher incomes won’t get the same high growth rate in their benefits as people with lower incomes. People who rely on Social Security should see the same kind of growth rate they’ve had in the past. But higher income folks would receive a little less.”

CBS’s Scott Pelley: “So in the Romney administration, in the Romney plan, there would be means testing for Social Security and for Medicare?”

Romney: “That’s correct. Higher income people won’t get as much as lower income people. And by virtue of doing that–and again, that’s for future retirees. For–by virtue of doing that, you’re able to save these programs on a permanent basis.”



And then there's this... LINK


Goshalmightydamn... that sure looks like he's addressing a plan to me.






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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
15106 posts
 Online 

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

I do not know. I would hope so and we will see soon. The GOP refusing to even consider the revenue side short circuited the process last go round though.



This is when I think they reach a compromise. GOP stonewalled, but now they are fighting over how to raise revenue. The President wants to raise rates. The GOP leadership is strongly against this, BUT Boehner has said he is willing to go Romney's route of closing loopholes/ going after deductions. Hopefully the two can find some common ground, and this is not just posturing by Boehner to say we tried.

I'm guessing the GOP doesn't want to raise "rates" because that is a black mark on a GOP resume. To me, rates, deductions, loopholes, etc. are all increasing receipts and taking money out of a pocket. It's all money, why get hung up on when it comes out or what we call the tax?


I would like to see he GOP give some on the "rates," in order to secure reform or cuts of spending programs. It has to be a two-prong attack.






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DeltaDoc
LSU Fan
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
8261 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


SSHHHHHhhhhhhh...Bard...facts make it hard to argue fictions...





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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
14855 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

You're not an idiot for saying it. It is right that in order to have a deficit you have to spend, but it is very short-sighted. Sure, if the government didn't spend any money, then there would not be a deficit. BUT there also wouldn't be a government.

The fact that we have a government and that government is not going away, means we have to fund it. Now what level of government is needed and the corresponding spending and taxation needed is an appropriate debate.


I think that's what he means. It's the over-spending that's the problem. The federal government has taken in record and near-record revenues every year since the Bush tax cuts went into effect in 2005. From FY 2005-2009 deficit spending increased around 250B each year. In FY 2009 it jumped from that average to almost a trillion dollars (from 458B to 1.412T). Since then it has stayed at an average of 1.2T per FY even though revenues have stayed above 2T ever since FY 2005 (prior to 2005 the only time revenues broke 2T was FY 2000).

So yes, the over-spending is THE problem because until spending is brought under control Congress will put any extra revenues into more pet projects instead of paying down the debt.






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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
14855 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

This is when I think they reach a compromise. GOP stonewalled, but now they are fighting over how to raise revenue. The President wants to raise rates. The GOP leadership is strongly against this, BUT Boehner has said he is willing to go Romney's route of closing loopholes/ going after deductions. Hopefully the two can find some common ground, and this is not just posturing by Boehner to say we tried.


As long as the effective rate remains the same, I don't think many would argue. The argument comes from raising rates, especially in such a bad economy. Do we go the route of short-term gains (raising taxes on the wealthy) only to have it make the economy worse?

I've said for a while the best thing the President and Congress could do would be to freeze rates for 7 years. This would give businesses a level of confidence they haven't had for the past couple of years.






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14387 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


quote:

So you think tax cuts without entitlement reform will get the job done? Because that was pretty much Romney's platform since he yapped a lot about cuts and said nothing about how he would reform entitlement.
I can see by your response that you never bothered to read Romney's proposals. You accepted the Democrats description of his proposals. Romney's plan called for reductions in tax rates combined with broadening of the tax base. History has demonstrated on multiple occasions that this leads to increased tax revenues not reductions in tax revenues. And Romney specifically addressed the topic of entitlement reform by proposing means testing for Social Security as a start.

Giving you a brain transplant from a poodle would at least give you the cognitive ability to realize you are an ignoramus. And from there you could actually learn enough to be a responsible citizen.






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ItNeverRains
LSU Fan
Franklin, TN
Member since Oct 2007
5877 posts

re: Faber: Prepare Your Anus (For Massive Market Meltdown)


If they want to raise taxes 5-10% to save face and solve a couple weeks worth of problems, at this point let them go. Until we cut defense, farm subs, welfare, and earmarks, its all pandering.

I also liked Romneys idea of businesses making a number of deductions (he used 25k) and once you take those deductions, that's it.






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