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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263414 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:00 pm to petar)
quote:
Clinton had a higher rate of taxation. so did Reagan. so did most presidents (atleast in modern history) before them. They all had a higher rate of growth the George W.
better underlying periods of economies rising doesn't mean they maximized the advantages that the state felt
quote:
I'm just saying there is little empirical evidence to support either side.
i asked a simple question
how can taxation (which is removing money from the economy) grow the economy?
do you believe the state is better at allocating resources than the free market?
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petar .gif)
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:00 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
you are basically arguing that some people are too stupid to be allowed to contract. just come out and say it
False, if you think Contracts of adhesion are based on stupidity, you prbly should have gone to a different law school yourself. The courts have routinely ruled against these types of contracts in America since the adoption of the doctrine in the early 1900's
quote:
nobody put a fricking gun to your head
courts have ruled that these type of contracts don't have to be a forced thing. "take it or leave it" is often in the wording of the courts. It henges on Public Policy interests which i think there is a large one in having professionals in the US
quote:
tell me what law made it illegal for you to go to college
Not all public policy issues have to do with the illegality of something
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Duke 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gonzales, La
Member since Jan 2008
13517 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:01 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
There is not one logical reason why we should not offer government subsidies for higher education.
I'm with you on the idea, but the current execution has only lead to inflation in tuition with no measurable gain in the value of the degree.
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petar
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:04 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
how can taxation (which is removing money from the economy) grow the economy?
Raising taxes coincided with higher economic growth during the clinton years. Or Post World War II when we had a top marginal rate above 50%.
you can also look to examples of The Soviet Union and China. During periods of Communism, these countries had Huge periods of Growth which likely were even greater than the United States.
All I'm saying is that Higher taxes do not necessarily lead to a lower rate of GDP growth. I've seen plenty of empirical evidence to lead to either conclusion.
quote:
how can taxation (which is removing money from the economy) grow the economy?
Maybe if its used to stabilize the debt. Plus, Higher taxes do not necessarily lead to removing money from the economy.
This post was edited on 11/7 at 9:06 pm
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263414 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:05 pm to petar)
quote:
if you think Contracts of adhesion are based on stupidity, you prbly should have gone to a different law school yourself.
no, that is the basis for arguing against them
if you don't like the terms of an agreement, then don't make the agreement.
quote:
The courts have routinely ruled against these types of contracts in America since the adoption of the doctrine in the early 1900's
bad case law doesn't make the system right. courts shouldn't act as social engineers. they should interpret the law
in a contractual situation the law is the contract between the parties
quote:
It henges on Public Policy interests
aka consumer protection
aka assuming that some people are too stupid to contract, so the courts must protect them
quote:
which i think there is a large one in having professionals in the US
you're going to have a hard time arguing that we don't have enough lawyers in this country 
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263414 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:07 pm to petar)
quote:
Raising taxes coincided with higher economic growth during the clinton years.
coincided with the dot com boom/bubble
quote:
Or Post World War II when we had a top marginal rate above 50%.
this is such a misleading stat. everything was deductible. tax shelters were easy to create. nobody hit those rates
quote:
you can also look to examples of The Soviet Union and China. During periods of Communism, these countries had Huge periods of Growth which likely were even greater than the United States.
holy
fricking
shit
or you can look at more comparable examples: countries that were exactly the same prior to being split into 2 countries: 1 free market and 1 communist. after a few decades we could see who is better:
east v. west germany
south v. north korea
quote:
Maybe if its used to stabilize the debt.
that doesn't grow the economy
quote:
Higher taxes do not necessarily lead to removing money from the economy.
how?
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petar
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:09 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
if you don't like the terms of an agreement, then don't make the agreement.
The argument is that these people had little actual choice to make this contract. Some condition led to a forced contract.
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you're going to have a hard time arguing that we don't have enough lawyers in this country
true.
But I need to actually go do lawyerly things instead of the endlessly getting distracted by this board. Enjoyed it
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petar
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:14 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
that doesn't grow the economy
ending uncertainty of the fiscal suicidal cliff prbly would.
Anyways all I'm arguing is that i reject that higher taxes are going to without a doubt lead to lower econommic growth. I'm not arguing that it will lead to rates of higher growth. I'm just rejecting that this should be considered as much as a fact as a supply/demand curve. You have rejected my argument without showing much proof that the opposite is true.
quote:
how?
If the government is spending it, I mean i know most would rather have the individuals spend it but higher taxes don't necessarily mean that less money is being spent or is in the marketplace.
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Me4Heisman 
USA Fan
Landmass
Member since Aug 2004
4431 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:15 pm to petar)
Would love to hear how these people had no choice in contracting.
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Puffoluffagus 
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2009
2213 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:36 pm to petar)
quote:
If the government is spending it, I mean i know most would rather have the individuals spend it but higher taxes don't necessarily mean that less money is being spent or is in the marketplace.
Probably more or less true. But it sure seems like a helluva inefficient method of spending(in regards to growing the economy): whether that's on providing financial support for the non-producers in society, or through other govt. run programs.
But often many of those govt. programs are funded with the main purpose being not to increase economic growth but rather a vehicle of whatever social change current and previous administrations have deemed important.
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stat19
USA Fan
Member since Feb 2011
8316 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:40 pm to inelishaitrust)
quote:
The Alabama and Mississippi numbers certainly suggest such.
No more than the 93-95% AA vote to O shows a racial divide.
Race only matters to racists
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JohnnyKilroy 
North Carolina Fan
Member since Oct 2012
5135 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:51 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
There is not one logical reason why we should not offer government subsidies for higher education.
You mean other than the fact that it is the direct cause of skyrocketing tuition?
"Making college affordable" has made college less affordable.
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Colonel Toddy 
Ole Miss Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2010
19384 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:54 pm to TigersRuleTheEarth)
quote:
What can be gleamed from this stat? That black voters overwhelmingly voted based on race.
Ignorant statement. Blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic. They have overwhelmingly voted for the white Dem nominee MANY times before.
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LSU7096
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since May 2004
510 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 9:59 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
Cowardly hypocrite.
Obama won 99% of the black vote....... Racism?
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JohnnyKilroy
North Carolina Fan
Member since Oct 2012
5135 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 10:12 pm to bulldogger)
quote:
Not really strong on that whole interpretation of numbers thing, eh?
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crazyLSUfan
LSU Fan
LA (Lower Alabama)
Member since Aug 2006
3952 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 11:48 pm to SlowFlowPro)
Gotta say SFP, I've given you lots of shite on the Rant and OT lounge in the past, but I have a lot of respect for your opinions in this thread!
 frick yeah!
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crazyLSUfan
LSU Fan
LA (Lower Alabama)
Member since Aug 2006
3952 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 11:54 pm to Colonel Toddy)
quote:
Ignorant statement. Blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic. They have overwhelmingly voted for the white Dem nominee MANY times before.
Not like we've ever had a black Repub nominee vs a white Dem nominee to test the theory
I think the more interesting statistic is not the % of black voters that vote democrat (because this doesn't change much regardless, as you've stated), rather the shear number of black voters that have turned out for the 08 & 12 elections as compared to prior elections, say in 00 & 04.
I don't know the numbers, just think it would be interesting to see though now that this point has been brought up several times on this board recently.
(disclaimer: not saying higher black voter turnout proves racism, but it definitely doesn't help to disprove that very notion)
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sugar71 
UCLA Fan
baton rouge
Member since Jun 2012
575 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/8/12 at 1:50 am to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
This is a bad sign for the country, imo.
I hope this doesn't show a racial divide, but I'm afraid it does.
Seems like many in the GOP wish this .
Kerry, Gore, Clinton & Obama all got roughly the same percentage of White voters.
Obama created no racial divide.
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