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TheOcean 
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:37 pm to SlowFlowPro)
You're dodging the question without showing any evidence. EVERYTHING I have read so far has said that there is not a strong correlation between cutting capital gains and an increase in investments
eta: I appreciate the solid debate. I'm off, law school is kicking my arse 
This post was edited on 11/7 at 8:39 pm
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TN Bhoy 
USA Fan
Philly
Member since Apr 2010
33584 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:38 pm to inelishaitrust)
quote:
Obama won 50% of the Catholic vote
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:39 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
You do realize what would happen to higher education without government subsidies, right?
it would become a much more valued commodity and the price of college would drop drastically
quote:
Sure, when millions aren't afforded the same options to better themselves.
college is cheap. JUCOs are really cheap. nobody is denied the right to "Better themselves"
quote:
Are they to blame for the poor economy?
further proof why their degrees aren't as economically viable as you're advertising them to be
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petar .gif)
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:39 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
unlike europe where i never would have had the opportunity.
So Europe doesn't have student loans?
quote:
you exercised your right to contract
Did i really though? What bargaining power did i have? I argue that my right to contract was limited because i have a grossly disparate bargaining power. And yes there is a public policy interest in having professionals such as lawyers.
quote:
increased federally-backed student loans increase the cost of education
While I agree, Im not going to object by not going to professional school
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Duke 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gonzales, La
Member since Jan 2008
13517 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:40 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
exactly. lower taxes. bigger GDP. everyone is better off
Except when that bigger GDP is fueled by a glut of private, corporate, and government debt.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:40 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
You're dodging the question without showing any evidence.
you're posting biased studies
quote:
EVERYTHING I have read so far has said that there is not a strong correlation between cutting capital gains and an increase in investments
go look at our tax receipts when bush cut them
hauser's law shows there is a limit to tax receipts. they'll be 15-20% of GDP
how do you increase tax receipts, then? increase GDP
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semotruman 
Missouri Fan
Columbia, mo
Member since Nov 2011
8318 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:41 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
I 100% agree. The level of political discourse in this country is enough proof that we need to focus more on improving education
This.
There were 2 stats that struck me yesterday that haven't been mentioned. Obama won those with a college education 50% - 48%. And he won mothers (all mothers, not just minority mothers) 56% - 43%. Education is a thread that links these two....
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Puffoluffagus 
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2009
2212 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:41 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
increased federally-backed student loans increase the cost of education. you can't bitch about loans and then complain about the cost of education. they're linked.
yup. When the federal govt. pretty much matches the COA of any school with loans that anyone can attain, it shouldn't really be that surprising that most schools COA/tuition slowly rises without having to worry much about decreasing enrollment numbers.
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71695 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
This is a bad sign for the country, imo.
I hope this doesn't show a racial divide, but I'm afraid it does.
If the Dems think there will not be blowback to their race and class division, they are full of shite.
Fortunately for them, they divide enough of the single issue groups to gain a majority.
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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:43 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
it would become a much more valued commodity and the price of college would drop drastically
Many institutions wouldn't exist without government subsidies. Poorer students would have to rely on being accepted to a public university (which would become super competitive). If they don't have the grades, they would have very little ability to go to college. JUCO would even be tough to manage without subsidies
quote:
nobody is denied the right to "Better themselves"
Yeah I was referring to high schools/etc
quote:
further proof why their degrees aren't as economically viable as you're advertising them to be
Or that our economy has provided them no opportunity to use their degree (and don't put that solely on Obama )
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:43 pm to petar)
quote:
So Europe doesn't have student loans?
i'm pretty sure it's not as cheap as our loans and much more scarce
quote:
I argue that my right to contract was limited because i have a grossly disparate bargaining power.
nobody forced you into the deal. i hate these consumer-based bull shite arguments. they are a destruction of freedom
quote:
Im not going to object by not going to professional school
the odds are that you and i would both have benefited by not going to law school
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petar
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:43 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
SlowFlowPro
Yea but arguing that GWB had a very successful tax code because he had the highest revenues during the period with the highest GDP is like arguing Justin Beiber is better than the Beatles because Beiber sells more records.
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lower taxes. bigger GDP.
I love how this is such a proven "Fact" on this board.
according to the same logic. Lower taxes equals lower gdp growth rate. Clinton had higher taxes and had a higher rate of gdp growth.
Both are wrong because they are oversimplifying the problem
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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:44 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
you're posting biased studies
So post some studies that show otherwise
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:47 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
Many institutions wouldn't exist without government subsidies.
so?
college is a saturated market. we have too many people getting degrees (especially non-economic degrees)
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If they don't have the grades, they would have very little ability to go to college.
and?
quote:
Yeah I was referring to high schools/etc
even the worst high school in the world doesn't deny somebody the ability to better themselves...especially with the internet and all the free shite you can learn on it. if you do poorly in school you have shite genetics or you didn't try
quote:
Or that our economy has provided them no opportunity to use their degree
it's not wise to go into a ton of debt during a recession with a degree that isn't economically viable
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petar
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:49 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i hate these consumer-based bull shite arguments. they are a destruction of freedom
I disagree. sometime the law needs to protect people from accepting deals they had little choice in. While i agree that my circumstance is borderline in line with this reasoning at best. Still, Contracts of adhesion are detrimental to society as a whole and i would argue impair freedom more than the opposite.
quote:
i'm pretty sure it's not as cheap as our loans and much more scarce
Not sure myself but I can't imagine a society that is more liberal (in a social welfare sense) than ours has more restrictive limits on education. Debt of british students after what is equivalent to undergrad is similar to ours as well.
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the odds are that you and i would both have benefited by not going to law school
While this might be true (although i hope its not), there is a public policy interest in allowing our brightest students to obtain the highest levels of education.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:49 pm to petar)
quote:
Yea but arguing that GWB had a very successful tax code
i didn't argue that
quote:
because he had the highest revenues during the period with the highest GDP is like arguing Justin Beiber is better than the Beatles because Beiber sells more records.
no. enacting tax policy that grows GDP should be celebrated not used as a "but" argument
quote:
I love how this is such a proven "Fact" on this board.
how the frick are we going to grow an economy by taking more money out of the efficient markets and wasting it through government?
do you think the state knows more about how to allocate resources than the market?
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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23128 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:49 pm to SlowFlowPro)
Well most of your argument hinges on just complete apathy, which is something we just don't see eye to eye on.
Education is not an issue when it comes to our economy. There is not one logical reason why we should not offer government subsidies for higher education.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:51 pm to petar)
quote:
sometime the law needs to protect people from accepting deals they had little choice in.
nobody put a fricking gun to your head. you had all the choice in the world
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Contracts of adhesion are detrimental to society as a whole and i would argue impair freedom more than the opposite.
you are basically arguing that some people are too stupid to be allowed to contract. just come out and say it
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Not sure myself but I can't imagine a society that is more liberal (in a social welfare sense) than ours has more restrictive limits on education.
europe is classist and isn't as free as america
it's also a lot more racist than america
the european social progressive myth is...a myth
quote:
While this might be true (although i hope its not), there is a public policy interest in allowing our brightest students to obtain the highest levels of education.
tell me what law made it illegal for you to go to college
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:52 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
Well most of your argument hinges on just complete apathy,
apathy? in what respect?
quote:
There is not one logical reason why we should not offer government subsidies for higher education.
the cost of education rising for everyone is an argument against government involvement in the market
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petar
Miami (FL) Fan
Miami
Member since May 2009
4950 posts
| re: Interesting election statistics thread (Posted on 11/7/12 at 8:54 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
enacting tax policy that grows GDP should be celebrated
quote:
how the frick are we going to grow an economy by taking more money out of the efficient markets and wasting it through government?
Clinton had a higher rate of taxation. so did Reagan. so did most presidents (atleast in modern history) before them. They all had a higher rate of growth the George W.
Im not saying that higher tax rates lead to higher GDP growth. nor am I saying the opposite. I'm just saying there is little empirical evidence to support either side.
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