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Does throwing long loosen up things for the run even without a high completion %
Posted on 10/24/12 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 10/24/12 at 4:50 pm
Last year (heck, for the last several years I think) there was an ongoing debate about what opened up defenses for the run more - passing or option or scrambling type running by the QB.
Definitely NOT trying to open up old QB controversies here, but one question that has occurred to me this year is whether taking some deep shots can open up the running game if the deep shots are not that successful.
Seems to me that, based on the A&M game (and maybe a little from the SC game) that even if al or most of the deep shots are not completed, it still tends to spread out the D and allow the running game to flourish.
Of course, I think if the passing game resulted in interceptions, a large number of sacks or sacks that cause fumbles, whatever advantage that is gained would be outweighed. But absent that, I think even a deep passing ration of say 50% or lower and even a couple of sacks would still be beneficial in the long term by loosening up the D.
So, what says the Rant? I know there are those here with more football knowledge than me that can weigh in.
Definitely NOT trying to open up old QB controversies here, but one question that has occurred to me this year is whether taking some deep shots can open up the running game if the deep shots are not that successful.
Seems to me that, based on the A&M game (and maybe a little from the SC game) that even if al or most of the deep shots are not completed, it still tends to spread out the D and allow the running game to flourish.
Of course, I think if the passing game resulted in interceptions, a large number of sacks or sacks that cause fumbles, whatever advantage that is gained would be outweighed. But absent that, I think even a deep passing ration of say 50% or lower and even a couple of sacks would still be beneficial in the long term by loosening up the D.
So, what says the Rant? I know there are those here with more football knowledge than me that can weigh in.
9
Posted on 10/24/12 at 4:52 pm to Methuselah
I think showing that you will throw long does loosen up the defense. Obviously completing the passes help much more, but showing a willingingness will certainly make D coordinators think it could happen and keep a safety or two back.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 4:55 pm to Methuselah
YES x1000000. Also running shep on the wr option hand off by putting him in motion keeps half the side of the defense honest....whether we give it to him or not....it should be in way more formations....even if we don't hand it off we can still throw to him like a normal route.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 4:58 pm to Methuselah
I don't know.
I think Bama will sell out t stop the run and wait for us to actually complete one of those deep passes before adjusting. And based on what we've seen so far, that won't happen
I think Bama will sell out t stop the run and wait for us to actually complete one of those deep passes before adjusting. And based on what we've seen so far, that won't happen
Posted on 10/24/12 at 5:04 pm to Methuselah
i think our completion percentage has been so low this season it might have the opposite effect. last season, we hardly ever threw deep, but when we did, our completion percentage was so high, probably over 60%, that it forced defenses to respect it. this season were probably getting less than 25% on passes over 20 yards.
the A&M game was especially bad, because our wr's had separation on every single frickin one of those plays, AND we had good protection, yet it took an amazing catch just to complete one of those passes. it basically sends the message, that even if you cant get pressure, and even if your guys get beat by our guys, the vast majority of the time it will just be a loss of down for us anyways. the times where the other team gets pressure, or the db makes a play drives the threat of having a long pass completed on you down closer to 10%. a 10% chance of giving up a big play isnt going to force a defense to do jack shite in regards to adjustments
the A&M game was especially bad, because our wr's had separation on every single frickin one of those plays, AND we had good protection, yet it took an amazing catch just to complete one of those passes. it basically sends the message, that even if you cant get pressure, and even if your guys get beat by our guys, the vast majority of the time it will just be a loss of down for us anyways. the times where the other team gets pressure, or the db makes a play drives the threat of having a long pass completed on you down closer to 10%. a 10% chance of giving up a big play isnt going to force a defense to do jack shite in regards to adjustments
Posted on 10/24/12 at 5:10 pm to Methuselah
It won't matter against Saban. Saban is going to load the box to stop the run and predominantly play press man on the outside. He'll do that so long as the passes fall incomplete. He'll probably do it even if Mett completes some long balls downfield. It's his philosophy. Stop the run, force the offense into long third downs, pressure the passer.
In sum, we'll have to consistently pass the ball downfield with success to score points on Bama. We can't hope that the mere threat of sporadic bombs is going to force Saban to alter his defense and allow the run. It won't happen.
In sum, we'll have to consistently pass the ball downfield with success to score points on Bama. We can't hope that the mere threat of sporadic bombs is going to force Saban to alter his defense and allow the run. It won't happen.
This post was edited on 10/24/12 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 10/24/12 at 5:43 pm to Methuselah
Easy answer, YES
Posted on 10/24/12 at 5:56 pm to Methuselah
With our success @ running the ball, our play action short to middle passing game should be successful. A little more creativity and using formations and alignments to create a numbers advantage in certain situations would help the success of the passing game. And give Mett some confidence & rythym.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 6:08 pm to Methuselah
quote:
Does throwing long loosen up things for the run even without a high completion %
Depends on the team you are playing. You have to look at it from the other teams perspective first so you can understand the coaches choices.
TAMU coaches knew there was no way they could hope to stop LSU's running game with only 7 or 8 in the box, they knew this for a FACT.
They had also seen our struggles in the pass game so it was a no brainer for them to "sell out" to stop the run and gamble with so much zero coverage. I haven't seen very many games when a coaching staff took such big risks with their defense. There were several times during the game that they literally had all 11 defensive players within 6 yards of the line of scrimmage!
Alabama won't take those same chances because they don't have to. If you ever watch much NFL football you will see the type of cat and mouse game that LSU/Bama always play with each other. When two teams are fairly equally talented one defender either way can make a big difference.
In the NFL its simple, if they give you a 7 man box you run it, if they give you an 8 man box you throw it. Its up to your running game to force the 8 man box or your passing game to force the 7 man box.
Thats how LSU and Bama tend to parry back and forth. If Saban can stop your running game with a 7 man box...he's got you. If you can force him to commit 8...you got a chance...providing your pass game can produce. Its the same choice for Chavis and our defense.
Posted on 10/24/12 at 6:46 pm to Methuselah
Absolutely it does. Right now, we can't complete the shorter routes because of so much traffic bunched up because of the run. Even the DE's just put their hands up and block the throw. People say it's because our receivers aren't fast enough or physical enough. B.S.!!
At least when you throw deep the corners have to respect it and the DE's can't block the throw. The corners are forced to move over the wide outs. One slip or stumble by a DB and it's a huge play.
Throwing deep also keeps the safeties deeper so they too can't cheat on the slants or help as quickly with run support. That opens up some slants and shorter routes as well. There won't be as much traffic bunched up within 10 - 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.
It doesn't matter if their completion percentage on the deep balls is low. Any deep completion is a game changer. If you can't run consistently because of 8 guys in the box or run a controlled passing game (which they haven't been able to do), then go VERTICAL! At least you're taking a shot at a big play rather than going three & out. Apologize for being long-winded.
At least when you throw deep the corners have to respect it and the DE's can't block the throw. The corners are forced to move over the wide outs. One slip or stumble by a DB and it's a huge play.
Throwing deep also keeps the safeties deeper so they too can't cheat on the slants or help as quickly with run support. That opens up some slants and shorter routes as well. There won't be as much traffic bunched up within 10 - 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.
It doesn't matter if their completion percentage on the deep balls is low. Any deep completion is a game changer. If you can't run consistently because of 8 guys in the box or run a controlled passing game (which they haven't been able to do), then go VERTICAL! At least you're taking a shot at a big play rather than going three & out. Apologize for being long-winded.
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