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Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:10 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
I just don't see TideSaints driving point here. I'm legitimately confused.
My point is that Cersei was dismayed with having to choose from Blount and Moore as her champion, seeing as she was happy that they were Margaery's only chances against Osney, and only got relief when she found out Arys was killed.
Her joy of Margaery's impending doom was due to the incompetence of the remaining KG members. She gets arrested and realizes that she is in the same boat. She never once speculates that her champion will face anyone other than Osney.
Would Margaery not be faced with the same opponent? Why would Cersei be so happy before her arrest if not because she knew that Osney would defeat Blount and Moore therefore condemning Margaery? The same logic applies to her. Margaery would still fall under the accusations of the Faith, but her opponent would be her actual accuser, Osney.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:12 pm to TideSaint
I think some of you are going off too many unproven theories as opposed to actually taking the books at their words.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:13 pm to TideSaint
quote:
I think some of you are going off too many unproven theories as opposed to actually taking the books at their words.
But aren't you doing just that yourself when we have proof of at least one trial by combat in the books that didn't involve the direct accuser fighting the accused with Tyrion at the Vale?
ETA: Now I think it's feasible that Ceresi and Co. are assuming the Faith will pick Kettleblack as their champion, but they are by no means bound to that.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:16 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Her joy of Margaery's impending doom was due to the incompetence of the remaining KG members. She gets arrested and realizes that she is in the same boat. She never once speculates that her champion will face anyone other than Osney.
Margery will not choose a champion as she will face a traditional trial.
And Cersei is insane with no clue how the world around her works.....
quote:
Would Margaery not be faced with the same opponent? Why would Cersei be so happy before her arrest if not because she knew that Osney would defeat Blount and Moore therefore condemning Margaery? The same logic applies to her. Margaery would still fall under the accusations of the Faith, but her opponent would be her actual accuser, Osney.
Because Osney is not the one bringing the charges forth against Cersei or Margery. The Faith is the one issuing the charges with the witness of Osney Kettleback. Cersei has effectively handed the Faith more power than the king, they choose who represents their cause and thats all there is to it. How you have gathered otherwise is beyond me.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:17 pm to CottonWasKing
Cotton, what's your email address?
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:17 pm to BluegrassBelle
cottonwasking@gmail.com
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:19 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Her joy of Margaery's impending doom was due to the incompetence of the remaining KG members. She gets arrested and realizes that she is in the same boat. She never once speculates that her champion will face anyone other than Osney.
I think you are missing the small fact that Cersei is almost always wrong.
She may think that, as stated in her POV, but she is sadly mistaken and delusional about how the whole thing is going down. She has no idea.
Fudge! Cotton beat me to the punch on this.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:20 pm to CottonWasKing
ygm 
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:21 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
How you have gathered otherwise is beyond me.
As I said earlier, I can only find a synopsis of Chapter 43 online. If I could post exact quotes I would. It's there. I promise you. Cersei states that Margaery was arrested by the Faith, but that Osney would most certainly defeat the only two people that could represent Margaery, meaning Blount and Moore.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:21 pm to BluegrassBelle
We have two other trials by combat to reference.
Tyrion was tried by the Crown with the murder of Joff. The Crown's champion was the Mountain.
Rickard was tried by the Crown. He chose trial by combat and Areys, the Batshit Crazy, chose fire to be the Crown's champion.
Tyrion was tried by the Crown with the murder of Joff. The Crown's champion was the Mountain.
Rickard was tried by the Crown. He chose trial by combat and Areys, the Batshit Crazy, chose fire to be the Crown's champion.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:21 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Crackpot Theory: The Sword of the Morning is assigned Dawn by the Order of the Sword and the Star.
Wasn't the Faith Militant disbanded long before Arthur Dayne was born? So who named him SoM?
Related question - Why haven't they named another in the 20 years or so since AD's death?
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:23 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
I think you are missing the small fact that Cersei is almost always wrong.
This.
He is basing his whole theory off of a point of view that is consistently wrong while ignoring more reliable sources.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:23 pm to Tiger in NY
Now I will say it's possible that Sandor doesn't fight unGregor at the trial and that unGregor ends up fighting someone like Lancel instead.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:26 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Cersei states that Margaery was arrested by the Faith, but that Osney would most certainly defeat the only two people that could represent Margaery, meaning Blount and Moore.
So you trust Cersei's POV over at least three other instances that differ from her POV.
Once again Cersei has absolutely no idea how the world works.
Go look at the other cases of Trial by Combat and make your decision off of that, not what the craziest bitch in the series has to say.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:27 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Sandor doesn't fight unGregor at the trial and that unGregor ends up fighting someone like Lancel instead.
I missed how people came to the conclusion that Sandor is part of the Seven Stars now? He isn't exactly pious. I see no way Lancel fights for them though. He is a shell of himself, and would surely lose to FrankenGregor.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:27 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
But aren't you doing just that yourself when we have proof of at least one trial by combat in the books that didn't involve the direct accuser fighting the accused with Tyrion at the Vale?
Tyrion was also denied in his choice for his champion in that trial as well. He chose Jaime, remember? That trial was run by an insane woman who didn't care what he wanted.
Cersei's trial will be much more publicized and will be done according to law. It has to be for it to stick.
As for the other trial by combat in the series that we know about, Tyrion's, there wasn't a central accusing figure. He actually went through a traditional trial until it was his turn to present evidence and he requested a trial by combat after talking to Oberyn, who did it to exact revenge against Gregor.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:30 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Tyrion was also denied in his choice for his champion in that trial as well. He chose Jaime, remember? That trial was run by an insane woman who didn't care what he wanted.
The rules for trial by combat require that the Champion be avaialble. Jamie was 1000 leagues away. Lysa's decision to deny Jamie was totally legit, and had precendence in the series. In Dunk & Egg, Aerion BrightFlame has to choose people other than the Kingsguard to fight against Dunk's seven because half the KG was back in KL.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:31 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
I missed how people came to the conclusion that Sandor is part of the Seven Stars now?
He was the grave digger that Brienne saw when she visited the Quiet Isle. Stranger was also in the stable there. Go reread that chapter in feast and your mind will be blown I promise.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:31 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Tyrion was also denied in his choice for his champion in that trial as well. He chose Jaime, remember? That trial was run by an insane woman who didn't care what he wanted.
Because they weren't willing to wait for Jaime, so he had to pick someone there. Seems reasonable to me despite her craziness.
quote:
Cersei's trial will be much more publicized and will be done according to law. It has to be for it to stick.
Because we know everything at Westeros, even the largely public trials, are done by the book.
quote:
As for the other trial by combat in the series that we know about, Tyrion's, there wasn't a central accusing figure. He actually went through a traditional trial until it was his turn to present evidence and he requested a trial by combat after talking to Oberyn, who did it to exact revenge against Gregor.
What about King Aerys and Rickard Stark?
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