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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:26 pm to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:26 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I just have the feeling that given the opposition to what went down (especially their deaths and the manner of it) that someone at KL wanted Aerys dead.
Of course someone did and that someone is rhaegar. Remember the conversation he had with Jamie?
"When I return we will call a council and changes will be made"
However Rhaegar was fighting not for his father's throne but for the one that would be his upon his return.
quote:
Sending the Starks their greatsword back would be a way of helping that along without doing the deed themselves.
If we would've found them we wouldn't have given Saddam Hussein his nukes back would we?
0
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:27 pm to BluegrassBelle
I found it. AFFC Chapter 43. This is just the synopsis:
I was off in the assumption that Cersei was speaking about herself when it came to being represented by the KG, she actually was talking about Margaery. However, this was before she was arrested too, so once she was she was feeling hopeless for the same reasons as she was feeling great about Osney beating Blount and Moore in their defense of Marg. Once she was arrested she realized that they had to defend her too.
Kevan gave her hope, and Robert Strong, once she found out Arys Oakheart was dead and Qyburn put Robert Strong on the KG.
quote:
Cersei has Tommen sign some blank warrants, which she then affixes names to. Summoning Ser Osfryd, she orders him to arrest Ser Tallad, the Blue Bard, Hugh Clifton, Mark Mullendore, as well as the Redwyne twins whom she wants to be found innocent of the charges of bedding Margaery. The next morning, Cersei and Taena are carried by litter to the Great Sept. On the way, Lady Merryweather inquires, "What if Margaery demands that her innocence be determined by battle?" Cersei smiles, and replies that she must be championed by a knight of the Kingsguard, but since Ser Osmund is brother to one of her accusers, that leaves only Ser Meryn Trant and Ser Boros Blount. Cersei states that the former will not be feeling well when the time comes.
quote:
Hopeless despite Qyburn's words that his unbeatable "champion" is ready, Cersei knows that only a Kingsguard can defend her in a trial by combat.
I was off in the assumption that Cersei was speaking about herself when it came to being represented by the KG, she actually was talking about Margaery. However, this was before she was arrested too, so once she was she was feeling hopeless for the same reasons as she was feeling great about Osney beating Blount and Moore in their defense of Marg. Once she was arrested she realized that they had to defend her too.
Kevan gave her hope, and Robert Strong, once she found out Arys Oakheart was dead and Qyburn put Robert Strong on the KG.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:29 pm to TideSaint
quote:
That means her trial will be decided between Robert Strong and the Kettleblack accuser, not a trial by seven.
The kettlebacks arent accusing her the Faith is. The Faith must choose a champion and Cersei must choose a champion.
Those champions will most likely be Robert Strong (that is a definite without question in black and white answer) and Sandor Clegane (no one else makes sense.)
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:31 pm to TideSaint
quote:
Hopeless despite Qyburn's words that his unbeatable "champion" is ready, Cersei knows that only a Kingsguard can defend her in a trial by combat.
That unbeatable champion has already been cloaked by the end of ADWD. You are citing out dated information.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:31 pm to TideSaint
Which is why Qyburn had Robert Strong named one of the Kingsguard by Tommen.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:32 pm to BluegrassBelle
See my edit above.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:34 pm to TideSaint
Then what is there to discuss? I'm confused.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:35 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I'm confused.
You and me both dawlin, you and me both
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:39 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Then what is there to discuss? I'm confused.
The reason Cersei was hopeless after being arrested was because she knew that as Queen, she had to be represented by a member of the KG. She stated in Chapter 43 of AFFC before she was arrested that Margaery would have to be championed by a KG rep due to her being the Queen. She was then arrested also and realized she was in the same position. She counted on Osney Kettleblack defeating either Blount or Moore therefore condemning Margaery.
Once she was arrested she knew she would suffer the same fate. That is, until she learned Oakheart was killed and that Robert Strong could be added to the KG, giving her a champion that could defeated Osney.
We all know Cersei was relieved when she found out Arys was killed, right? Why? Because as Queen she had to be represented by a KG member. Before she told Kevan to tell Qyburn "it was time," she knew that her only two choices were Blount and Moore, two men who she believed would be easily killed by Margaery's accuser, Osney Kettleblack.
Osney Kettleblack is her accuser as well.
It can't be that confusing.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:44 pm to TideSaint
I see what you're saying. I just don't see the crackpot theory in there. It all seemed pretty straightforward to me I guess. 
I'm really not trying to be an arse or anything. It is interesting how that all came down and how one player in the "game" can turn the tide. But I guess it just wasn't discussed because of where we stand at this point?
And as said, the Faith is the one that has to name their champion and we could see the Gravedigger come into play here. That could get really interesting.
I'm really not trying to be an arse or anything. It is interesting how that all came down and how one player in the "game" can turn the tide. But I guess it just wasn't discussed because of where we stand at this point?
And as said, the Faith is the one that has to name their champion and we could see the Gravedigger come into play here. That could get really interesting.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:47 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
Those champions will most likely be Robert Strong (that is a definite without question in black and white answer) and Sandor Clegane (no one else makes sense.)
That pretty much settles the matter of who will be the champions of Cercei's trial by combat.
The only crackpot theory to explore would be alternative champions for the Faith.
I don't think a Kettleblack is an option since one of them is a witness in the trial.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:48 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I see what you're saying. I just don't see the crackpot theory in there. It all seemed pretty straightforward to me I guess
It's not a crackpot theory per se, but there has been multiple speculations in this thread on a 7v7 trial and who would be the champion for the Church. If you hold what Cersei says as fact regarding Margaery, it means that the Queen's champion would face off against her accuser, not someone the Church chose.
Therefore, it would be Osney Kettleblack against a KG member for both Cersei and Margaery, if both chose to endure a trial by combat.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:50 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
I don't think a Kettleblack is an option since one of them is a witness in the trial.
From reading AFFC, it means that the Queen's accuser must face her champion (a KG member) in a trial by combat. The Faith does not choose their champion. It would be fought by the man bringing the accusations.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:53 pm to TideSaint
quote:
From reading AFFC, it means that the Queen's accuser must face her champion (a KG member) in a trial by combat. The Faith does not choose their champion. It would be fought by the man bringing the accusations.
It's not just about Kettleblack's accusations. The Faith is also accusing Ceresi of killing the High Septon. It's the Faith that is trying her.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 7:59 pm to BluegrassBelle
Agreed. The Faith is trying Cercei.
And Cercei restored the Order of the Sword and the Star. That would allow the Seven of choose there own champion.
And Cercei restored the Order of the Sword and the Star. That would allow the Seven of choose there own champion.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:00 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
The Faith is also accusing Ceresi of killing the High Septon.
An act that Osney Kettleblack carried out and that Cersei said he misinterpreted her intent on actually wanting the High Septon killed. Again, based on her POV chapter, means that Osney would be their champion.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:02 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
It's not just about Kettleblack's accusations. The Faith is also accusing Ceresi of killing the High Septon. It's the Faith that is trying her.
Exactly. The faith is the DA in this scenario, there may be other witnesses who bring forth those accusations but the faith is the one ultimately trying her for her crimes.
and Margery has already decided on a traditional trial as opposed to a trial by combat and all the theories concerning a trial by seven were shot down pretty soon.
I just don't see TideSaints driving point here. I'm legitimately confused.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:03 pm to TideSaint
The Order of the Sword and the Star. That sure does sound like something the Daynes would be associated with.
Crackpot Theory: The Sword of the Morning is assigned Dawn by the Order of the Sword and the Star.
Crackpot Theory: The Sword of the Morning is assigned Dawn by the Order of the Sword and the Star.
This post was edited on 8/22/12 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:05 pm to TideSaint
quote:
An act that Osney Kettleblack carried out and that Cersei said he misinterpreted her intent on actually wanting the High Septon killed. Again, based on her POV chapter, means that Osney would be their champion.
How does that make Osney their champion? Just as Ceresi can name her champion, the Faith can name theirs. A perfect example is what happened at the Vale with Tyrion and Bronn. Catelyn Stark was accusing Tyrion of attempting to kill Bran. But she didn't name a champion because it was the Vale and her sister that was trying him.
Posted on 8/22/12 at 8:05 pm to TideSaint
quote:
. Again, based on her POV chapter, means that Osney would be their champion.
I fail to see one piece of literature in any ones POV chapter that points towards the faith's champion.
What everyone draws their opinions on is that Cersei's champion is definitely Robert Strong aka Frankengregor and that Sandor is a part of that faith right now.
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