- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message

Community and the Death of Quality Network TV
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:27 pm
This is going to be a long post, even for me. So spare me the TL:DR crap. You were warned, and if you don’t want in on the discussion, just click on another thread now. (This of course, virtually guarantees the first response will be TL;DR). Yes, I also know there’s another Community thread, but I’m trying to have a more focused discussion about what it means for TV. OK, with that out of the way…
I have long argued we are living in the Golden Age of Television. There is more great TV on right now then there ever has been. Unless it was just five years ago. But the point is, there are more ambitious, interesting shows on television than there were in previous eras. TV has blossomed into, well, art. And that has rarely been the case before Twin Peaks, which I view as the dividing line. That’s when people realized what you could actually DO with television, even if it took ten years to actually start doing it.
What has fueled this incredible burst of creativity over the past decade? Cable. Go ahead and make a list of the top ten shows on TV right now. Chances are good that your list is dominated by shows on cable. Expand the list to, say, the top 20 of the past decade. Once again, almost all cable shows.
Why is this? Simple. Cable shows don’t have to draw as large of an audience to be considered a success. The Sopranos was a wildly successful show, and it never got the numbers Community gets on a bad night. Yet the Sopranos was the lynchpin of HBO’s original programming and Community is getting shuffled to Friday so it can reach syndication and then be quietly smothered with a pillow.
Here’s a hard fact of pop entertainment: the best stuff will never find the largest audience. You get large audiences by aiming for the middle. Hugely popular movies, shows, and music don’t suck per se, they are just usually competently made mediocrities. It’s precisely because they are competently made mediocrities that they are successful.
Movies are a bit of an exception, but audiences as a rule, do not want to be challenged. They do not want engaging. They want comforting. They want familiarity. And it’s not wrong for a business to give the consumers what they want. In fact, that’s largely a positive thing.
But that makes for terrible art. Over the past decade, TV has made a real push to be considered more than just a vehicle for selling cars and soda. TV show runners have made a compelling case to be considered legitimate artists. Like all pop artists, they still need to bring in some sort of audience to be viable, but they have done so by making challenging shows for a targeted niche. The best shows don’t get the best ratings, but they get the most fanatical devotees. Their viewers aren’t passive, they are active. The audience actually engages the material which, theoretically at least, means each viewer is more valuable.
Which of course brings us to Community. Community is, or more accurately “was”, the best show on network TV. It was high concept, challenging, and funny as hell. It also had almost no chance of success among the average TV viewer who wants familiar – Community is far too weird and self-aware to ever serve as good white noise in the background. Because of this, the show has been moved to Friday and Dan Harmon has been fired.
Losing Harmon means the show is dead. It was his voice and Community without Harmon is like The Godfather without Coppola. The history of shows losing their showrunner mid-run is not auspicious. In fact, most had dramatic drops in quality (SEE West Wing, Gilmour Girls). NBC will leave a neutered “wacky” show on Friday until it reaches syndication and then turn out the lights. It’s an ignoble end.
Sure, NBC is a business and needs to make a profit. But I find it hard to believe they can’t make money off of a fanbase as devoted as Community’s. The Coen brothers’ Oscar speech thanked the movie industry for letting them play in a corner of the sandbox. NBC certainly has room in their sandbox, given the dire straits the network is in.
But what this really means is that the networks are giving up on quality television. OK, they will still turn out competent procedurals and the like, but they are ceding “art” to the cable networks. The network shows have grown progressively duller while all of the exciting work is being done on AMC, F/X, or HBO. Those of us who look for quality television will completely abandon the networks in the search of said quality.
This is the Golden age of Television, and it’s happening without the networks. Tell me, is that actually good for business? The Big Four don’t have room for Community, Justified, Mad Men, and the like?
I have long argued we are living in the Golden Age of Television. There is more great TV on right now then there ever has been. Unless it was just five years ago. But the point is, there are more ambitious, interesting shows on television than there were in previous eras. TV has blossomed into, well, art. And that has rarely been the case before Twin Peaks, which I view as the dividing line. That’s when people realized what you could actually DO with television, even if it took ten years to actually start doing it.
What has fueled this incredible burst of creativity over the past decade? Cable. Go ahead and make a list of the top ten shows on TV right now. Chances are good that your list is dominated by shows on cable. Expand the list to, say, the top 20 of the past decade. Once again, almost all cable shows.
Why is this? Simple. Cable shows don’t have to draw as large of an audience to be considered a success. The Sopranos was a wildly successful show, and it never got the numbers Community gets on a bad night. Yet the Sopranos was the lynchpin of HBO’s original programming and Community is getting shuffled to Friday so it can reach syndication and then be quietly smothered with a pillow.
Here’s a hard fact of pop entertainment: the best stuff will never find the largest audience. You get large audiences by aiming for the middle. Hugely popular movies, shows, and music don’t suck per se, they are just usually competently made mediocrities. It’s precisely because they are competently made mediocrities that they are successful.
Movies are a bit of an exception, but audiences as a rule, do not want to be challenged. They do not want engaging. They want comforting. They want familiarity. And it’s not wrong for a business to give the consumers what they want. In fact, that’s largely a positive thing.
But that makes for terrible art. Over the past decade, TV has made a real push to be considered more than just a vehicle for selling cars and soda. TV show runners have made a compelling case to be considered legitimate artists. Like all pop artists, they still need to bring in some sort of audience to be viable, but they have done so by making challenging shows for a targeted niche. The best shows don’t get the best ratings, but they get the most fanatical devotees. Their viewers aren’t passive, they are active. The audience actually engages the material which, theoretically at least, means each viewer is more valuable.
Which of course brings us to Community. Community is, or more accurately “was”, the best show on network TV. It was high concept, challenging, and funny as hell. It also had almost no chance of success among the average TV viewer who wants familiar – Community is far too weird and self-aware to ever serve as good white noise in the background. Because of this, the show has been moved to Friday and Dan Harmon has been fired.
Losing Harmon means the show is dead. It was his voice and Community without Harmon is like The Godfather without Coppola. The history of shows losing their showrunner mid-run is not auspicious. In fact, most had dramatic drops in quality (SEE West Wing, Gilmour Girls). NBC will leave a neutered “wacky” show on Friday until it reaches syndication and then turn out the lights. It’s an ignoble end.
Sure, NBC is a business and needs to make a profit. But I find it hard to believe they can’t make money off of a fanbase as devoted as Community’s. The Coen brothers’ Oscar speech thanked the movie industry for letting them play in a corner of the sandbox. NBC certainly has room in their sandbox, given the dire straits the network is in.
But what this really means is that the networks are giving up on quality television. OK, they will still turn out competent procedurals and the like, but they are ceding “art” to the cable networks. The network shows have grown progressively duller while all of the exciting work is being done on AMC, F/X, or HBO. Those of us who look for quality television will completely abandon the networks in the search of said quality.
This is the Golden age of Television, and it’s happening without the networks. Tell me, is that actually good for business? The Big Four don’t have room for Community, Justified, Mad Men, and the like?
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:31 pm to Baloo
I agree completely. I won't have a reason to watch network TV except for sports after House ends tonight.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:37 pm to Baloo
quote:
This is going to be a long post, even for me. So spare me the TL:DR crap. You were warned, and if you don’t want in on the discussion, just click on another thread now. (This of course, virtually guarantees the first response will be TL;DR)
I declare that we, the Movie/TV Board, start the phrase "TS:NM." Of course it means "Too Short: Need More."
Obviously not necessary for this post, but for people who post opinions/ideas without reasons. We could be pioneers. And on to reading the rest of your post.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:42 pm to Baloo
quote:i agree with this 100% all of my favorite shows were never ratings killers but the fans are way more passionate that they average run of the mill tv show. i'm going to use probably my favorite show on tv right now fringe as an example it is losing the ratings war by a large margin but the fans of this show are 100 times more passionate than your regular case per week crime solving drama. One comment always makes me go WTF however it is this one
e. The best shows don’t get the best ratings, but they get the most fanatical devotees. Their viewers aren’t passive, they are active. The audience actually engages the material which, theoretically at least, means each viewer is more valuable.
quote:i get what you are attempting to say and i dont want this to turn into an argument thread like it will when cp3lsu25 chimes in on my reaction but this just seems like a comment that was ripped off a blog and regurgitated to death. how exactly is community (which is one of my favorite comedies) challenging is it because it is a different type show that say 2 and a half men and the like. when i watch it it doesnt necessarily make my brain hurt cause i have to think i enjoy it as a comedy and dont feel the least bit more comforted or intellectually void of meaning by watching a show like BBT or friends compared with a show as this. It always baffles me when people say this.
but audiences as a rule, do not want to be challenged. They do not want engaging. They want comforting. They want familiarity.
Overall solid analysis though
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:44 pm to Baloo
Friday Night Lights was the best drama to be on TV since the Walton's and HIllstreet blues and they 86'd it without so much as a thanks.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:45 pm to LSUlunatic
quote:embrace your inner troll i get called it all the time sometimes warranted though
I was called a troll a few weeks back for arguing that network tv sucked:
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:46 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:i dont know what they were doing with this show putting on satellite tv or whatever then replaying it live they never gave it a chance.
Friday Night Lights was the best drama to be on TV since the Walton's and HIllstreet blues and they 86'd it without so much as a thanks.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:46 pm to Freauxzen
I'm more in fan of a "substance to word count" ratio. sure the op has lots of words, but that don't make it chock full of substance.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:46 pm to makinskrilla
quote:congrats
Wow...didn't read.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:47 pm to nosaj56
Baloo, this is a great question, and I really do think that it's better for business for certain shows to be on cable over network broadcast... as long as the definition of what is "successful" fits the model of cablecasting.
What I'm more curious about is how the "Golden Age" of TV will translate to the next primary delivery technology, presumably the direct download.
Would you be able to produce "Game of Thrones" on expected revenue from people skipping cable... and being the direct consumer from the production company?
My initial thought is no. The promotion platform offered by cable and broadcast networks is what drives awareness of a particular show. I wonder if it's even possible to run a show without these 24/7 promotion powerhouses.
What I'm more curious about is how the "Golden Age" of TV will translate to the next primary delivery technology, presumably the direct download.
Would you be able to produce "Game of Thrones" on expected revenue from people skipping cable... and being the direct consumer from the production company?
My initial thought is no. The promotion platform offered by cable and broadcast networks is what drives awareness of a particular show. I wonder if it's even possible to run a show without these 24/7 promotion powerhouses.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:49 pm to Baloo
quote:
Here’s a hard fact of pop entertainment: the best stuff will never find the largest audience. You get large audiences by aiming for the middle. Hugely popular movies, shows, and music don’t suck per se, they are just usually competently made mediocrities. It’s precisely because they are competently made mediocrities that they are successful.
I've brought up this point before. The posters here that love patting themselves on the back for loathing Chuck Lorre shows get pissed when their above average taste is not mirrored by the unwashed masses. Do you want to be above average or average? You can't be both.
quote:
But what this really means is that the networks are giving up on quality television.
I don't understand why they don't have some sort of demotion model. Unless they're really big names I think most people in Hollywood would rather take a paycut than be cancelled. Dollhouse for example cut their budget in half after low ratings threatened the show. They still got cancelled but it seems like there should have been a way for Fox to shift distribution of the show to FX or something.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:49 pm to Baloo
quote:
I have long argued we are living in the Golden Age of Television. There is more great TV on right now then there ever has been. Unless it was just five years ago. But the point is, there are more ambitious, interesting shows on television than there were in previous eras. TV has blossomed into, well, art. And that has rarely been the case before Twin Peaks, which I view as the dividing line. That’s when people realized what you could actually DO with television, even if it took ten years to actually start doing it.
Can't disagree with anything here.
quote:
What has fueled this incredible burst of creativity over the past decade? Cable. Go ahead and make a list of the top ten shows on TV right now. Chances are good that your list is dominated by shows on cable. Expand the list to, say, the top 20 of the past decade. Once again, almost all cable shows.
Maybe be more specific, not necessarily "Cable," that's merely the vehicle, but "More focused programming," which is what Cable is about.
quote:
Why is this? Simple. Cable shows don’t have to draw as large of an audience to be considered a success. The Sopranos was a wildly successful show, and it never got the numbers Community gets on a bad night. Yet the Sopranos was the lynchpin of HBO’s original programming and Community is getting shuffled to Friday so it can reach syndication and then be quietly smothered with a pillow.
Exactly. And this isn't old. Everyone knows that the first two seasons of Seinfeld were not great. The show was given time to find an audience. In the carousel of modern broadcast television, no show is given the time to find its feet, and even when it does, it most likely has already received notice of cancellation.
quote:
Here’s a hard fact of pop entertainment: the best stuff will never find the largest audience. You get large audiences by aiming for the middle. Hugely popular movies, shows, and music don’t suck per se, they are just usually competently made mediocrities. It’s precisely because they are competently made mediocrities that they are successful.
Movies are a bit of an exception, but audiences as a rule, do not want to be challenged. They do not want engaging. They want comforting. They want familiarity. And it’s not wrong for a business to give the consumers what they want. In fact, that’s largely a positive thing.
Yeah I was going to say, Casablanca? Technically brilliant. Wonderfully artistic. And universally popular. But then there's always Citizen Kane as the counterpoint.
And this fact is only because Movies are LESS of an investment in terms of time.
quote:
TV has made a real push to be considered more than just a vehicle for selling cars and soda. TV show runners have made a compelling case to be considered legitimate artists.
Sure, NBC is a business and needs to make a profit. But I find it hard to believe they can’t make money off of a fanbase as devoted as Community’s. The Coen brothers’ Oscar speech thanked the movie industry for letting them play in a corner of the sandbox. NBC certainly has room in their sandbox, given the dire straits the network is in.
But what this really means is that the networks are giving up on quality television. OK, they will still turn out competent procedurals and the like, but they are ceding “art” to the cable networks. The network shows have grown progressively duller while all of the exciting work is being done on AMC, F/X, or HBO. Those of us who look for quality television will completely abandon the networks in the search of said quality.
This is the Golden age of Television, and it’s happening without the networks. Tell me, is that actually good for business? The Big Four don’t have room for Community, Justified, Mad Men, and the like?
But they do so begrudgingly because broadcast companies are so focused on the viewer count and advertising money.
There is an EASY fix to all of this: Overhaul the Ratings system to include Online, OnDemand and all kinds of consumption. THAT will give you the audience and broadcast shows may gain more freedom because that is where audiences are lining up.
It's so simple it's ridiculous, but as long as they stay married to the insanely inefficient method of Nielsen ratings, you won't see a change.
This post was edited on 5/21/12 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:51 pm to Baloo
quote:
the Death of Quality Network TV
Directly coincides with the rise of "reality TV"...ergo the rise of stupidity.
Network execs has figured out that if they put piles of shite, on top of piles of shite, that moronic brainless teeny bops watch, that they won't have to pay actors. Dumb shite like american idol, the voice, america's got talent, the bachelor, the bachelorhood, shows about people working, etc.... are the ones to blame for actual tv shows that have plots and characters.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:51 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:FNL was amazing. It stayed amazing. It's still amazing after being over. It's amazeballs.
Friday Night Lights was the best drama to be on TV since the Walton's and HIllstreet blues and they 86'd it without so much as a thanks.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:52 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:clear eyes full hearts
FNL was amazing. It stayed amazing. It's still amazing after being over. It's amazeballs.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:54 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
There is an EASY fix to all of this: Overhaul the Ratings system to include Online, OnDemand and all kinds of consumption. THAT will give you the audience and broadcast shows may gain more freedom because that is where audiences are lining up.
It's so simple it's ridiculous, but as long as they stay married to the insanely inefficient method of Nielsen ratings, you won't see a change.
This is all true, however people keep leaving out on huge factor in today's world: DVD sales.
DVD sales is a huge factor in whether a show is allowed to stay on when ratings are bad. DVD sales can save a show, or kill it.
The hurtful truth is, as much as Community fans claim to be fanatical, it is not reflected in the sales of the DVD's for the show.
DVD sales saved Family Guy. They got Firefly a movie. They saved Chuck for two more seasons.
Broadcast companies pay attention to that.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:56 pm to magildachunks
quote:TS;NM
They saved Chuck for two more seasons.
Posted on 5/21/12 at 12:57 pm to magildachunks
quote:
This is all true, however people keep leaving out on huge factor in today's world: DVD sales.
DVD sales is a huge factor in whether a show is allowed to stay on when ratings are bad. DVD sales can save a show, or kill it.
The hurtful truth is, as much as Community fans claim to be fanatical, it is not reflected in the sales of the DVD's for the show.
DVD sales saved Family Guy. They got Firefly a movie. They saved Chuck for two more seasons.
Broadcast companies pay attention to that.
Good point.
Popular
Back to top


18








