| Posted by | Message |
Jimbeaux 
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2003
10659 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:29 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot)
quote:
I believe Obama lied then or now. But, I believe they ALL do. This is the rule...not the exception.
That's true. But the size of the lie matters, and the stakes of the lie matter, and the coverup of the lie matters the most.
If this particular lie has any bearing on whether a politician is eligible to run for office, that's pretty significant, no?
If documents were forged to cover up that lie, that would be significant, no?
If the media was an accomplice after the fact to the cover-up, that would be significant, no?
|
| Back to top | |
coloradoBengal
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
32608 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:31 pm to Green Chili Tiger)
quote:
Well he wasn't born in Kenya either
Nobody can prove where he was born really. Video of his mother giving birth under an Acacia tree wouldn't prove anything definitively.
Hawaii has claimed him. The truth doesn't really matter now.
FWIW... I think the natural born requirement is a stupid one.
|
| Back to top | |
BlackHelicopterPilot
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
26426 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:31 pm to Jimbeaux)
quote:
That's true. But the size of the lie matters, and the stakes of the lie matter, and the coverup of the lie matters the most.
If this particular lie has any bearing on whether a politician is eligible to run for office, that's pretty significant, no?
If documents were forged to cover up that lie, that would be significant, no?
If the media was an accomplice after the fact to the cover-up, that would be significant, no?
Did you think my post was to excuse him?
It was not. It was to excoriate them all. I am not saying "this isn't so bad BECAUSE they all do it." I am saying "THIS SUCKS....AND THEY ALL DO IT!"
|
| Back to top | |
Bobby Moore
LSU Fan
Red Hill, Mississippi
Member since Jun 2005
17751 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:31 pm to CptBengal)
quote:
Barrack never lived in Kenya.
Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room.
|
| Back to top | |
Green Chili Tiger
LSU Fan
The House of Black and White
Member since Jul 2009
11522 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:34 pm to coloradoBengal)
quote:
Nobody can prove where he was born really
Correct, but in the Born in Hawaii column we have a Birth Certificate, two different newspaper announcements, and at least one interview given in 1990 stating that he was born in Hawaii.
In the Born in Kenya column we have this pamplet and allegations of tampering with the birth certificate.
|
| Back to top | |
Jimbeaux
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2003
10659 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:35 pm to Rex)
quote:
No, it's not. The pamphlet was issued after Harvard and there are a number of plausible explanations why it contained bad information... Obama's literary agent was mistaken... Obama never reviewed the pamphlet... given his abandonment and his father's background Obama was mistaken about his own place of birth. Could it have been a deliberate lie? Sure. But it's certainly not proof of anything.
Assuming what you say is all true, at least admit, AT LEAST, that it was underhanded, to a degree and in a way not seen before in politics, that team Obama and the complicit media VILIFIED anyone who simply questioned his origins of birth, considering the fact that AT A MINIMUM, Obama was aware that others had touted his Kenyan birth for some advantage in the past.
|
| Back to top | |
baybeefeetz
the now
Member since Sep 2009
11567 posts
 Online
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:36 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot)
quote:
I believe Obama lied then or now. But, I believe they ALL do. This is the rule...not the exception.
You have to know whether he said anything on the subject to know whether he lied. This suggests he said it or acquiesced, but who the hell knows.
|
| Back to top | |
BlackHelicopterPilot
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
26426 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:38 pm to baybeefeetz)
quote:
I believe Obama lied
quote:
You have to know whether he said anything on the subject to know whether he lied
C'mon, baybeefeetz. I am one of the ones that appreciates and respects you.
Surely, you are better than that. Must I explain the difference between 'to believe' and 'to know'?
|
| Back to top | |
CptBengal 
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30450 posts
Online
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:39 pm to Green Chili Tiger)
quote:
Well he wasn't born in Kenya either, but that doesn't seem to be slowing anyone down.
You offered it as an excuse for a "typo" that wasn't a typo.
the fix for the typo doesnt even make sense. Like I said...excuse FAILED.
|
| Back to top | |
RollTide1987 
Alabama Fan
Senoia, Georgia
Member since Nov 2009
17691 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:39 pm to Green Chili Tiger)
quote:
we have a Birth Certificate
We have A birth certificate, not THE birth certificate.
quote:
two different newspaper announcements
Which were both doing foreign-born announcements up until 1965. Obama was born in 1961.
quote:
In the Born in Kenya column we have this pamplet and allegations of tampering with the birth certificate.
We also have his Kenyan-born grandmother, several other newspaper articles that I have run into from as late as 2004, and the president of Kenya himself who all state that Obama is Kenyan born.
|
| Back to top | |
Jimbeaux
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2003
10659 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:41 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot)
quote:
I am not saying "this isn't so bad BECAUSE they all do it." I am saying "THIS SUCKS....AND THEY ALL DO IT!"
\\Fair enough. But the reality is that they don't ALL do it. It's just fairly common to catch politicians in lies.
But I'm asking you to agree that all lies are not equal. Some lies are more significant than others, and the response we have to the different levels of lying can appropriately vary, depending on the degree.
|
| Back to top | |
parrotdr
LSU Fan
Cesspool of Rationalization
Member since Oct 2003
5274 posts
Online
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:41 pm to RollTide1987)
quote:
Anyone who has watched the youtube video proving that the birth certificate was severly manipulated by someone using software and still beleives it's the real deal is truly a fool.
ahem....WHAT? Anyone who has his mind totally changed and convinced after watching a youtube video...THAT's the fool!
|
| Back to top | |
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30450 posts
Online
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:42 pm to Green Chili Tiger)
quote:
but in the Born in Hawaii column we have a Birth Certificate,
that was forged.
quote:
two different newspaper announcements
from the same paper, and Hawaii issues announcements and BCs to non-residents, particularly at that time.
quote:
and at least one interview given in 1990 stating that he was born in Hawaii.
and an AP news article stating he was born in Kenya with no retraction.
Look. You like Obama. But He is a liar...and this stinks.
|
| Back to top | |
Green Chili Tiger
LSU Fan
The House of Black and White
Member since Jul 2009
11522 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:42 pm to Bobby Moore)
quote:
According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room.
quote:
Here’s the conversation:
MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?
OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.
MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?
OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.
MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.
OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.
MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.
|
| Back to top | |
coloradoBengal
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
32608 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:43 pm to Green Chili Tiger)
quote:
In the Born in Kenya column we have this pamplet and allegations of tampering with the birth certificate.
And family members statements.
quote:
in the Born in Hawaii column we have a Birth Certificate, two different newspaper announcements, and at least one interview given in 1990 stating that he was born in Hawaii.
What we has is a modern document asserting Obama is a natural born Hawaiian. Its really nothing like what my birth certificate from Baptist Hospital looks like. Again... this is enough. If Hawaii claims him... he's theirs, and there's not any way you can disprove it.
However, if a person was born in rural Kansas in 1961, and brought into a hospital a week later to get a B.C. They would have given them one, no questions asked other than time/place/parents.
The same goes for a kid born in Kenya and brought into Hawaii within a week or three of his birth.
The whole birther thing is interesting in a sort of "Real Housewives" train wreck sort of way, but in reality its just an act of desperation on the part of some of his detractors. IMHO, they do themselves a disservice by wasting this much energy on something that can never be clearly proven either way.
Concentrate your energies on his political career. There should be enough there to completely discredit him. And if the public excuses it... well... it wouldn't surprise me. They're stupid.
|
| Back to top | |
BlackHelicopterPilot
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
26426 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:43 pm to Jimbeaux)
quote:
But I'm asking you to agree that all lies are not equal.
of course. I am not doing a comparative analysis. Certainly, some are worse than others.
quote:
But the reality is that they don't ALL do it.
I disagree
|
| Back to top | |
baybeefeetz
the now
Member since Sep 2009
11567 posts
Online
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:45 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot)
quote:
Surely, you are better than that. Must I explain the difference between 'to believe' and 'to know'?
Clearly not fine-tooth combing this thread here. My bad.
|
| Back to top | |
TygerTyger
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2010
2600 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:46 pm to parrotdr)
quote:
ahem....WHAT? Anyone who has his mind totally changed and convinced after watching a youtube video...THAT's the fool!
parrotdr
have you watched THE video? The one that takes the file DIRECTLY from the Whitehouse.gov site and debunks it? Like I said, I can't get to youtube from work, but if you can, go watch it and come back. If you're even patently open minded and can watch that without becoming the slightest bit suspicious, you're a fricking idiot.
What, denial and ignorance easier than clicking and watching? Liberal always look down their noses and espouse open minded intellectualism. fricking hypocrits.
|
| Back to top | |
parrotdr
LSU Fan
Cesspool of Rationalization
Member since Oct 2003
5274 posts
Online
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:51 pm to TygerTyger)
While I am open minded, Tyger Squared, I refuse to argue with someome who calls me a fricking idiot on his first response. Enjoy your deluded life.
I doubt you know what open-minded means, unless it means open to YOUR opinion.
Rational discussion I'm in for--but not for this.
|
| Back to top | |
TygerTyger
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2010
2600 posts
| re: I am not a birther but I now believe Obama was born in Kenya (Posted on 5/17/12 at 3:53 pm to parrotdr)
Did you watch the video?
You called me a fool on YOUR first response.
Can you define hypocrit?
|
| Back to top | |
