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re: How do to feel about Financial Fair Play?
Posted on 5/16/12 at 3:37 pm to theOG
Posted on 5/16/12 at 3:37 pm to theOG
Yea, I don't really know enough about the specifics to discuss it in detail intelligently. I thought I had read something about a revenue to spending ratio, but I could be off base. I'm for some kind of FFP that will limit clubs going into massive debt in order to build rosters. As well, I'm for limiting exorbitant, outside, non-football related funds being pumped into clubs.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 3:40 pm to xavierTIGER
The basic idea is the club cannot spend beyond their means. What OG is referring to is the 3 year smoothing in period where clubs are allowed to post modest losses.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 3:42 pm to xavierTIGER
Posted on 5/16/12 at 6:32 pm to xavierTIGER
quote:
wouldn't teams like Barca and Real be at an advantage with their inflated individual television contracts?
My understanding is yes, a massive one. Forza Sevilla!
Posted on 5/16/12 at 10:57 pm to wm72
I have said it before, but I think FFP is stupid. I think soccer is great the way it is and has always been. People think that FFP will increase parity and reduce transfer prices. The stated goals of FFP are to improve parity and prevent insolvency. While I think the free market does a fine job of sorting itself out, I can agree with trying to stop clubs from becoming financially insolvent.
Imposing financial regulations to improve parity is a mistake on several counts. Advertising revenues, ticket sales, merchandising all count toward "balancing the books" while transfer fees and wages count against it. The main problem with FFP improving parity is that the already established teams that have huge revenue streams are basically going to maintain what they are already doing. Look at bayern munich for example. They have one of the highest revenue streams as it stands now. Under FFP they are able to spend as much as they make on transfers etc. They will not be harmed by FFP. Smaller teams without already established revenues will never be able to spend outside their means to play catch up. Bayern would be able to buy the established talent while Wigan will be stretching their books to buy an above average player. So basically you are keeping the status quo. RM and barca already own the rights to their broadcasts which is why they make so much more than other teams in la liga. Where is the parity in putting tighter restrictions on clubs that aren't established?
Second, there are loopholes in FFP. Take city for example. They saw the writing on the wall as far as FFP and said the only way we are going to be able to compete down the line is to spend like crazy now while there is no recompense. They posted record losses the last few years but are starting to generate more revenue with merchandise, tickets, sponsorships, etc. Also, players who were purchased in this leniency period can be sold after FFP becomes enforced to be considered profit. They did a 340 million pound deal with etihad airways, which is owned by sheik mansours half brother, which will count as revenue even though there's no realistic way that the deal should've been worth that much. In short, it won't be hard to circumvent the rules. Credit to city for some shrewd financial tactics.
Third, FFP will be very hard to monitor and nearly impossible to enforce. Who will be auditing the clubs and how can they really know the values of these revenues and expenditures? When a club goes out of regulation there is a list of corrective actions that UEFA can take. Which corrective action is appropriate for which offense? Who will sit on the board that oversees corrective action? More importantly, will uefa have the balls to legitimately turn a team away from a competition? Sure they will tell a team like anzhi to frick off but what if they catch RM, city, barca, or bayern cheating on their books? Do you really think they would exclude the established giants from the "greatest club competition on earth"? Not to mention the law suits and lengthy arbitration if that were to happen.
LINK
It's not that I am against parity and solvency, I just think that the market is fine the way it is. If a team spends outside of their means and runs out of money then they deserve to go into administration. No one held a gun to their head and made them spend. Besides, how many teams can you count that have overspent and gone under besides leeds, portsmouth, and rangers? I would dare say that they level of soccer we are seeing now is worth that risk. You don't like where transfer fees are headed? Don't pay them. Invest in your academy and be thrifty like arsenal. Nobody said it was easy to run a successful club on a budget.
I also think it is a little hypocritical for uefa to try and cut back on big spending while they have made a ton of money showing the games between these superclubs.
/rant
commence with :didnotread:
Imposing financial regulations to improve parity is a mistake on several counts. Advertising revenues, ticket sales, merchandising all count toward "balancing the books" while transfer fees and wages count against it. The main problem with FFP improving parity is that the already established teams that have huge revenue streams are basically going to maintain what they are already doing. Look at bayern munich for example. They have one of the highest revenue streams as it stands now. Under FFP they are able to spend as much as they make on transfers etc. They will not be harmed by FFP. Smaller teams without already established revenues will never be able to spend outside their means to play catch up. Bayern would be able to buy the established talent while Wigan will be stretching their books to buy an above average player. So basically you are keeping the status quo. RM and barca already own the rights to their broadcasts which is why they make so much more than other teams in la liga. Where is the parity in putting tighter restrictions on clubs that aren't established?
Second, there are loopholes in FFP. Take city for example. They saw the writing on the wall as far as FFP and said the only way we are going to be able to compete down the line is to spend like crazy now while there is no recompense. They posted record losses the last few years but are starting to generate more revenue with merchandise, tickets, sponsorships, etc. Also, players who were purchased in this leniency period can be sold after FFP becomes enforced to be considered profit. They did a 340 million pound deal with etihad airways, which is owned by sheik mansours half brother, which will count as revenue even though there's no realistic way that the deal should've been worth that much. In short, it won't be hard to circumvent the rules. Credit to city for some shrewd financial tactics.
Third, FFP will be very hard to monitor and nearly impossible to enforce. Who will be auditing the clubs and how can they really know the values of these revenues and expenditures? When a club goes out of regulation there is a list of corrective actions that UEFA can take. Which corrective action is appropriate for which offense? Who will sit on the board that oversees corrective action? More importantly, will uefa have the balls to legitimately turn a team away from a competition? Sure they will tell a team like anzhi to frick off but what if they catch RM, city, barca, or bayern cheating on their books? Do you really think they would exclude the established giants from the "greatest club competition on earth"? Not to mention the law suits and lengthy arbitration if that were to happen.
LINK
It's not that I am against parity and solvency, I just think that the market is fine the way it is. If a team spends outside of their means and runs out of money then they deserve to go into administration. No one held a gun to their head and made them spend. Besides, how many teams can you count that have overspent and gone under besides leeds, portsmouth, and rangers? I would dare say that they level of soccer we are seeing now is worth that risk. You don't like where transfer fees are headed? Don't pay them. Invest in your academy and be thrifty like arsenal. Nobody said it was easy to run a successful club on a budget.
I also think it is a little hypocritical for uefa to try and cut back on big spending while they have made a ton of money showing the games between these superclubs.
/rant
commence with :didnotread:
Posted on 5/16/12 at 11:03 pm to puffulufogous
quote:
I think soccer is great the way it is and has always been.
This is where you and I disagree. I think there are a lot of improvements that can be made to the financial side of the game, especially with regard to the way TV money is distributed throughout UEFA. FFP makes it impossible for small clubs to compete, and basically serves as a mechanism of self-preservation for big teams.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 11:07 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
FFP makes it impossible for small clubs to compete, and basically serves as a mechanism of self-preservation for big teams.
definitely. as it stands, the clubs that are making lots of money can spend lots of money.
i don't really see the point of this.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 11:12 pm to theOG
Basically they are just threatening you not to put yourself into administration. Like you would want to anyway. It is just stupid and poorly implemented.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 11:16 pm to puffulufogous
quote:
Basically they are just threatening you not to put yourself into administration.
But it doesn't even target the teams that are most likely to go into administration, the small teams. The punitive damages for going afoul of FFP is not being able to enter UEFA competitions. A small club in danger of administration usually doesn't compete for Europe. You have cases like Rangers, who were trying to punch above their weight, but I'd argue that you need the reality of administration to enter the minds of board members. Dortmund rebuilt themselves completely after nearly going bankrupt, and are on the precipice of becoming a European power (in my opinion).
Something has to be done to ensure domestic have a fair structure for TV deals, which are more important to actual financial parity than rules imposed from the top down by UEFA.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 11:31 pm to crazy4lsu
I hear you. We are on the same page. Now for something completely different. I hope you like jiggle billy.
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