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Goran Dragic Point/Counter-Point
Posted on 5/15/12 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 5/15/12 at 1:12 pm
247 has a pro and con article for signing Goran Dragic that some might find interesting.
The Point is as a starter for the Rockets, in addition to his own stellar stats he also made everyone better compared to Jarrett Jack making everyone worse.
The Counter-Point is that his numbers were inflated by a hot streak and even if he is better than Jack he's not that much better to justify the $8 - $10 million price tag vs. Jack's $5 million.
The Point is as a starter for the Rockets, in addition to his own stellar stats he also made everyone better compared to Jarrett Jack making everyone worse.
The Counter-Point is that his numbers were inflated by a hot streak and even if he is better than Jack he's not that much better to justify the $8 - $10 million price tag vs. Jack's $5 million.
7
Posted on 5/15/12 at 1:20 pm to TigerinATL
I like Dragic, but don't see how he fits in NO. Unless they move Jack, there isn't much reason to bring in a 3rd pg for $6-8 million.
Even if they move Ariza or Okafor to clear space, I'm not sure spending that money on Dragic is wise. He's not an All-Star and the team would have other needs.
Even if they move Ariza or Okafor to clear space, I'm not sure spending that money on Dragic is wise. He's not an All-Star and the team would have other needs.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 1:20 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Jarrett Jack making everyone worse.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 1:28 pm to TigerinATL
If he costs $8-$10 million I do not see him coming. However, at $6-$7 million I would take him over Jack. We would have to exceed the MLE just to eliminate some other teams that are over the cap.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 2:59 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
Jarrett Jack making everyone worse.
I think he's saying Jack isn't a "facilitator" type player. Just a guess though.
And I like Jack FWIW, but it is hard to 'settle' for Jack when we've had Paul and Collison running the show the past few years. So we all may be a little jaded.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 3:02 pm to Suntiger
quote:
And I like Jack FWIW, but it is hard to 'settle' for Jack when we've had Paul and Collison running the show the past few years. So we all may be a little jaded.
That's the only thing that would make sense about the statement, if he meant worse compared to Paul
Posted on 5/15/12 at 3:11 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
That's the only thing that would make sense about the statement, if he meant worse compared to Paul
No, he was relying on advanced stats.
quote:
But it goes beyond his individual statistics; Dragic also raises his team’s level of play. When Dragic is on the court, the team’s true shooting percentage jumps up a full 3%. This is the result of him getting the ball to the rest of the team in their favorite spots. This is also why his assist percentage jumped over 7% to 34.6% as a starter.
Contrast that with the Hornets current starter Jarrett Jack. With Jack on the court, the Hornets’ true shooting percentage declines 1% and their rebound rate drops 2%. Not only does the team play slightly worse offense with Jack, he really hurts the team’s defense as well. Opponent free throw rate and steal rate both increase by 5%, and opponent shooting percentage increases by 4%. Dragic’s presence on the other hand neither hurts nor helps his teams defense, though 82games.com lists his opponent PER as a below average 12.7. (While Jack’s is a terrible 16.7)
Since they were tasked with either making a Point or Counter-Point, I'm sure both guys reached for anything that supported their position.
This post was edited on 5/15/12 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 5/15/12 at 3:17 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Tha frick?
Jarrett Jack making everyone worse.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 3:22 pm to TigerTatorTots
quote:
Tha frick?
yeah man, he is a terrible teammate
quote:
shooting percentage declines 1% and their rebound rate drops 2%
:omg:
This post was edited on 5/15/12 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 5/15/12 at 3:29 pm to TigerTatorTots
I think it has something to do with the fact that Greivis is a pass-first PG off the bench which means his APM rate should be better than Jack hence why Jack's drops. Also Greivis is much taller than JJ so his rebounding rate might be better.
This post was edited on 5/15/12 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 5/15/12 at 3:33 pm to RonFNSwanson
quote:
That's the only thing that would make sense about the statement, if he meant worse compared to Paul
That's kind of the only way I could make sense of that statement.
quote:
No, he was relying on advanced stats.
If that's the case, then yeah, that statement is crazy.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 5:13 pm to TigerinATL
I'd rather trade away next year's 1st and take a PG in this year's first round. Say a Teague from Kentucky.
We could literally have 3 starters from this year's draft in our starting lineup opening day 2013/2014 season to pair with EG10. Still think we should keep Ariza as our heady veteran/glue guy/defensive specialist.
PG - Jack and/or 2012 Draft late 1st round pick (trade)
SG - Gordon
SF - Ariza
PF - 2012 Draft 1st or 2nd pick
C - 2012 Draft 1st or 2nd pick
If your nucleus is 1 max contract guy, 3 rookie contract guys, and 1 mid level guy like Ariza you're freaking loaded for bear like a Memphis or OKC and ready to acquire smart pieces to get you to the "top 6 teams in the league" group.
We could literally have 3 starters from this year's draft in our starting lineup opening day 2013/2014 season to pair with EG10. Still think we should keep Ariza as our heady veteran/glue guy/defensive specialist.
PG - Jack and/or 2012 Draft late 1st round pick (trade)
SG - Gordon
SF - Ariza
PF - 2012 Draft 1st or 2nd pick
C - 2012 Draft 1st or 2nd pick
If your nucleus is 1 max contract guy, 3 rookie contract guys, and 1 mid level guy like Ariza you're freaking loaded for bear like a Memphis or OKC and ready to acquire smart pieces to get you to the "top 6 teams in the league" group.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 5:20 pm to MinnesotaTiger
quote:
I'd rather trade away next year's 1st and take a PG in this year's first round. Say a Teague from Kentucky.
We could literally have 3 starters from this year's draft in our starting lineup opening day 2013/2014 season to pair with EG10. Still think we should keep Ariza as our heady veteran/glue guy/defensive specialist.
PG - Jack and/or 2012 Draft late 1st round pick (trade)
SG - Gordon
SF - Ariza
PF - 2012 Draft 1st or 2nd pick
C - 2012 Draft 1st or 2nd pick
If your nucleus is 1 max contract guy, 3 rookie contract guys, and 1 mid level guy like Ariza you're freaking loaded for bear like a Memphis or OKC and ready to acquire smart pieces to get you to the "top 6 teams in the league" group.
i nominate this for whatever we decide to call worst post of the year award next year
Posted on 5/15/12 at 5:22 pm to quail man
quote:
i nominate this for whatever we decide to call worst post of the year award next year
Worst idea of the year award sponsored by the proposers of the New Orleans Gala
Posted on 5/15/12 at 5:45 pm to BeeFense5
quote:sounds like a WNBA franchise
New Orleans Gala
Posted on 5/15/12 at 6:48 pm to quail man
If you're too ignorant to grasp how the meaningless wins at the end of the season cost us 2 draft slots than chances are you're too ignorant to digest how having 3 rookies coming up together (as well as having the best C, PF, and PG in a single draft) are pretty good moves.
Posted on 5/15/12 at 7:01 pm to MinnesotaTiger
IN 
Posted on 5/15/12 at 7:03 pm to MinnesotaTiger
quote:
If you're too ignorant to grasp how the meaningless wins at the end of the season cost us 2 draft slots than chances are you're too ignorant to digest how having 3 rookies coming up together (as well as having the best C, PF, and PG in a single draft) are pretty good moves.
Other than your condesending tone, you fail to grasp how hard it is develop one rookie as a starter much less three. That is a recipe for a horrible team, whose pick you traded away will most likely be a high lottery pick. Plus you're playing the percentages that at least one of those picks will be a bust, which in the NBA is about 40% of the 1st round picks.
I'm all for stockpiling talent, but less than half of the guys that come in the 1st round will be capable of starting (or should be). In your brillance, you fail to realize this. You really think Teague can unseat Jack as a starter? His brother was a bigger star coming into the league and couldn't unseat Hinrich for two years.
On a seperate note, show some respect. Name calling is just immature. I'm sure you are better than that..
Posted on 5/15/12 at 7:06 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Other than your condesending tone, you fail to grasp how hard it is develop one rookie as a starter much less three. That is a recipe for a horrible team, whose pick you traded away will most likely be a high lottery pick. Plus you're playing the percentages that at least one of those picks will be a bust, which in the NBA is about 40% of the 1st round picks.
You keep Ariza, Jack, and Kaman as starters with the 3 young pups and this is a 7th or 8th seed (or VERY high lottery) so that pick is moot.
It's essentially the Saints' logic for picking Mark Ingram - best RB in the draft this year with the following year's first round pick.
ETA: Using "ignorant" as an adjective isn't quite name-calling. I would argue that Quail Man using his irrational hatred of me to nominate a pretty interesting idea/post of mine as the "worst post of the year" is WAY more out of line.
This post was edited on 5/15/12 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 5/15/12 at 7:08 pm to RonFNSwanson
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