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RLDSC FAN 
Southern Cal Fan
Riverside, CA
Member since Nov 2008
13830 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:22 pm to Tom288)
quote:
Yay! I'm so glad this happened because gay marriage is an incredibly important political issue
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NC_Tigah 
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40146 posts
 Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
Social conservatism is going to haunt the GOP for years to come
Are you under the misimpression NC is a "GOP" state?quote:
The fact that we are allowed to vote on someone's consensual personal life
 
The outlawing of both gay marriage and CU in NC is an unfortunate but predictable reaction to bull shite statements just like yours.
No one is voting on "consensual personal life."
The vote is on granting government favors to those who live in such consensual circumstances.
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TN Bhoy 
USA Fan
Philly
Member since Apr 2010
33584 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
The fact that we are allowed to vote on someone's consensual personal life,
I'm sorry, but did North Carolina just ban gay sex? It didn't? Then what the frick are you going on about?
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HempHead 
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:25 pm to TN Bhoy)
Didn't vote, not going to condone the process under which this is done.
Still, I am disappointed to see the results. Funnily enough, each county that voted 'No' had a university in it.
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mtntiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
7731 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:25 pm to Tom288)
quote:
If a church doesn't want to marry two gay dudes fine, that's their right. We don't need the government stepping and siding with one side of the argument or the other.
Agree, and as I posted earlier, my concern was that down the road, without the amendment in place, the state would pressure churches to perform marriage rites for everyone who walks in the door, regardless of whether that denomination is OK with it.
I think the gay lobby can still go the civil union route though, and, again, I'm OK with that.
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40146 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:30 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!)
quote:
Both are the the biggest threats to America.
Actually babbling bull shite artists and the media willing to carry their word as fact are the real threats.
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Tom288 
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
16756 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:34 pm to mtntiger)
quote:
Agree, and as I posted earlier, my concern was that down the road, without the amendment in place, the state would pressure churches to perform marriage rites for everyone who walks in the door, regardless of whether that denomination is OK with it.
I think that's a case of, "We'll fight that fight when we get to it, but there's no reason to punish a group out of fear of future ramifications that may or may not arise."
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DA
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
16251 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:35 pm to mtntiger)
LINKquote:
The state already outlawed gay marriage, but the constitutional amendment makes it more difficult for politicians to ever change the law. The amendment also means that a handful of North Carolina municipalities that extended benefits to the domestic partners of their employees will no longer be able to do so, since marriage is now the only valid legal partnership in the state.
quote:
Only 46 percent of voters realized that the amendment would ban civil unions for gay couples as well as marriage, according to a Public Policy Polling poll. A majority of North Carolina voters support civil unions.
This post was edited on 5/8 at 9:39 pm
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40146 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:41 pm to Tom288)
quote:
I think that's a case of, "We'll fight that fight when we get to it, but there's no reason to punish a group out of fear of future ramifications that may or may not arise."
An approach which once again raises questions as to why gay activists were so insistent on "marriage" not CU in the first place.
i.e., Why not go with CU? Then address the marriage thing at some future point if CU somehow proved inadequate.
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mtntiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
7731 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:41 pm to Tom288)
quote:
I think that's a case of, "We'll fight that fight when we get to it, but there's no reason to punish a group out of fear of future ramifications that may or may not arise."
Where's the punishment? Nothing has changed, except that now there can be no change without overwhelming public support. It's obvious about 2/3 of N. C. voters are against gay marriage, so I'd say the gay lobby picked the wrong fight with the wrong crowd.
Also, as far as it being a case of "We'll fight that fight when we get to it....," why should churches have to fight to protect their beliefs?
Again, I know there are churches in the Asheville area that cater to the gay community. The gay lobby isn't satisfied with that. They want EVERY church to have to recognize gay marriage and ACCEPT it. Sorry, better to draw the line in the sand on their side of the street than on mine.
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40146 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:42 pm to DA)
quote:
A majority of North Carolina voters support civil unions.
Not tonight.
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mtntiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
7731 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:46 pm to NC_Tigah)
quote:
An approach which once again raises questions as to why gay activists were so insistent on "marriage" not CU in the first place.
i.e., Why not go with CU? Then address the marriage thing at some future point if CU somehow proved inadequate.
Couldn't agree more, NC. Proves to me they're seeking more than tolerance.
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Colonel Toddy 
Ole Miss Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2010
19384 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:47 pm to TN Bhoy)
I'm VERY surprised it only passed with 58% support. There was never any doubt the bigots were going to win this.
HOWEVER, the zealots probably went too far in their zeal to bash gay people and protect the "institution of marriage".
What the proponents of this amendment fear most is the possibility of courts and judges changing the definition of marriage and making same-sex marriage legal in NC. Passing this amendment may actually force the issue into the courts sooner than it would have gotten there otherwise.
There were NO activists running around the state bringing court challenges against the current law that already makes same-sex marriage illegal. And, the courts in NC are not filled with liberal “activist” judges who would look kindly on those suits if they were brought. After all, judges in NC are elected, not appointed for life.
The Prop 8 amendment in CA was found to be unconstitutional. And, that finding was upheld on appeal in a federal district court. One of the reasons the finding of unconstitutionality was upheld was because Prop 8 took away rights from a class of people that they already had. And, those rights were taken away for no reason other than animus.
Because of the broad overreach of Amendment One, that same situation will occur in NC Both same-sex and opposite- sex unmarried couples have legal domestic partnership benefits provided to them through their employment with many municipal governments like Durham, Chapel Hill and Carrboro. This amendment will eliminate those benefits. Rights once held by a group of people will be eliminated for no reason other than animus.
If the group defending Prop 8 in CA couldn't come up with a valid reason for their amendment that would pass muster in court other than "for the Bible tells me so" (which wasn't deemed valid), I don't think they would be able to do it here in NC either.
So, passage of the amendment will likely result in a court challenge as soon as any couple loses their domestic partnership benefits.
The very court cases that the pro amendment forces have feared will ultimately be brought about by the over reach of their own amendment. And, they will lose. There is precedent now from the Prop 8 case.
Had they written an amendment that only outlawed marriage and left civil unions and domestic partnerships alone, they probably would have been safe from court challenges. But, as Tami Fitzgerald said, she didn't want to leave open the possibility of civil unions ever coming to NC. She considers civil unions to be the gateway to eventual marriage rights. She wanted to stop it all in one fell swoop. That over reach is what will cause the downfall when the amendment is challenged.
That being said, I'm much more excited about the ballot initiatives in Maine, Minnesota, and Washington state this Fall. We have an excellent chance of winning Maine and Washington, and should be very competitive in Minnesota.
Progress takes time. Less than eight years ago there were no states with gay marriage. Now there are six plus DC. There will be eight if we win in Maine and Washington. Nine if the Prop 8 rulings hold.
Also, did you see where one of the amendment main sponsors wife said her husband wrote Amendment 1 to "protect the Caucasian race". Very classy GOP.
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Tom288
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
16756 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:49 pm to mtntiger)
quote:
Where's the punishment? Nothing has changed, except that now there can be no change without overwhelming public support. It's obvious about 2/3 of N. C. voters are against gay marriage, so I'd say the gay lobby picked the wrong fight with the wrong crowd.
Banning gay marriage. Should be a church's decision, not the government's.
quote:
Also, as far as it being a case of "We'll fight that fight when we get to it....," why should churches have to fight to protect their beliefs?
Why should gay couples have to fight for marriage rights?
quote:
Sorry, better to draw the line in the sand on their side of the street than on mine.
That's why solutions that make sense never work.
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Tom288
Florida Fan
Member since Apr 2009
16756 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:50 pm to NC_Tigah)
quote:
An approach which once again raises questions as to why gay activists were so insistent on "marriage" not CU in the first place.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to get married if they find a church that will marry them? What right does the government have to prevent it?
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Colonel Toddy
Ole Miss Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2010
19384 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:52 pm to mtntiger)
quote:
Again, I know there are churches in the Asheville area that cater to the gay community. The gay lobby isn't satisfied with that. They want EVERY church to have to recognize gay marriage and ACCEPT it. Sorry, better to draw the line in the sand on their side of the street than on mine.
Bull shite. Bull shite. Gays want the same right to a civil marriage just like heterosexuals.
Don't worry the SCOTUS will force NOrth Carolina
into the 21st century just like they made them allow interracial marriages.
Congratulations for voting to enshrine bigotry in your state constitution. You really really disgust me. 
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40146 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:55 pm to Colonel Toddy)
quote:
Less than eight years ago there were no states with gay marriage.
Eight years ago how many states outlawed Civil Unions?
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L.A. 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Los Angeles
Member since Aug 2003
34695 posts
Online
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:56 pm to Colonel Toddy)
quote:
If the group defending Prop 8 in CA couldn't come up with a valid reason for their amendment that would pass muster in court other than "for the Bible tells me so" (which wasn't deemed valid), I don't think they would be able to do it here in NC either.
It nevers ceases to amaze me that you continually reference Prop 8 in California as if you knew what you were talking about.
The people of California voted to change our state constitution. "For the Bible tells me so" had nothing to do with it. "We the people " had everything to do with it.
quote:
The Prop 8 amendment in CA was found to be unconstitutional
By one single gay judge who stood to benefit from his own ruling.
quote:
And, that finding was upheld on appeal in a federal district court. One of the reasons the finding of unconstitutionality was upheld was because Prop 8 took away rights from a class of people that they already had
A right that had existed in California for only a very brief time and which had been "bestowed" on its citizens by a judge, not by the California State Constitution.
This post was edited on 5/8 at 9:57 pm
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10869 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:57 pm to TN Bhoy)
Obama has proven time and time again that he has no political courage. How ironic it is that he's less progressive than Dick Cheney on the issue of gay rights.
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Colonel Toddy
Ole Miss Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2010
19384 posts
| re: North Carolina OKs constitutional same-sex marriage ban (Posted on 5/8/12 at 9:58 pm to mtntiger)
quote:
I think the gay lobby can still go the civil union route though, and, again, I'm OK with that.
WTF? You do realize this bans civil unions and domestic partnerships too. It's unbelievable how uninformed you are living in North Carolina.
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