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AlaTiger 
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
9993 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:11 pm to baytiger)
quote:
That's the fun part of the bible, though. No matter what you say about it, some other reader, somewhere, will claim that you don't know what you're talking about and that you're only wringing its words to "score rhetorical points" or somehow support your perception of reality.
Not really. I am relaying the consensus view here. Savage is stringing together prohibitions against shellfish and the like and connecting it to stonings of adulterers in the nation-state of Israel and connecting it to slavery and condemnation of Homosexuality.
All of those issues have a specific context and are there for a specific reason. That really isn't up for debate. But, you can be simplistic about it if you want and just throw your hands up and say that Savage is right because he criticizes the Bible. That would be easy.
But, it would also be wrong. You don't even have to believe in God to understand that the Bible is not saying what Savage claims for it to say. Correct textual criticism along the lines that I am proposing does not require faith. It just requires a bit of knowledge and understanding of context.
For example, I do not have to be a Muslim to be corrected on what the Koran teaches and be able to understand it more accurately. All I have to do is talk to a an educated Muslim who holds the accepted view.
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alajones
LSU Fan
Barksdale AFB
Member since Oct 2005
19243 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:20 pm to WikiTiger)
quote:
and where does the concerted effort to maintain a legal contract system that excludes homosexuals fit into that?
I 've always wondered this. Why do Christians feel they have the patent on what is and what isn't marriage.
For the record, I am a Christian. But I don't believe all gay people are going to hell. And I don't get what Christians have against two gay people making a lawful contract.
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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
5129 posts
 Online
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:22 pm to AlaTiger)
I'm still amazed that people have completely missed the hypocrisy of what that a-hole did.
He was speaking at an anti-bullying rally. While doing so, he begins to curse Christians and go off on a diatribe about how horrible the Bible is. When a few Christians get rightfully upset and leave, he calls them a bunch of pussies.
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alajones
LSU Fan
Barksdale AFB
Member since Oct 2005
19243 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:23 pm to TK421)
No one cares about people bashing Christianity. Why do you think he didn't read some stuff from the Quran?
This post was edited on 4/30 at 3:24 pm
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magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
7783 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:24 pm to AlaTiger)
quote:
I am relaying the consensus view here.
Because the consensus is never wrong. 
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navy 
Navy Fan
Bannedeville, LA
Member since Sep 2010
3424 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:27 pm to alajones)
quote:
Why do Christians feel they have the patent on what is and what isn't marriage.
Didn't realize it was limited to Christians.
Maybe the gay people that have moved well past tolerance (which is generally afforded here in nasty, Christian America) and are now pushing for unwavering and open-armed acceptance (which is not going to happen anytime soon) should try getting married in a Muslim country.
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alajones
LSU Fan
Barksdale AFB
Member since Oct 2005
19243 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:29 pm to navy)
I am limting it to the U.S.
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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
6631 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:36 pm to AlaTiger)
quote:
AlaTiger
Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant
quote:
His goal is to point out that there's a lot of stupid shite in the bible that even the most devout Christians no longer believe or follow, and one day soon, hatred of homosexuals will rank among them.
Well, the Bible tells me right now not to hate homosexuals or anyone else for that matter, so I don't really need Dan Savage's mocking of Scripture and calling it bullsh-t to tell me that, do I?
Matthew 5:21-21 "21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:38-48 "38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[g] 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
This is the same Bible that says that homosexuality is a sin. So, if I follow Scripture, I can see that homosexuality is sin, yet still love and not hate homosexuals and not seek to harm them in any way. That is the nuance that Savage and others don't understand.
He should be appealing to what Scripture says about how we are to treat people, even the enemies of God and our own enemies - with sacrifical love. But, to do that, Savage would have to give the Bible authority and he does not want to come under its authority - it condemns his lifestyle.
So, instead, Savage mischaracterizes and mocks it before high school students and then insults those who take issue with his bigotry by calling them pansy asses with his microphone as they gathered in the hallway in silent opposition to his lies.
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baytiger 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Houston
Member since Dec 2007
40598 posts
Online
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:38 pm to navy)
quote:
Maybe the gay people that have moved well past tolerance (which is generally afforded here in nasty, Christian America) and are now pushing for unwavering and open-armed acceptance (which is not going to happen anytime soon) should try getting married in a Muslim country.
so since we're less homophobic than the most notorious homophobes on the planet, it's ok?
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Blue Velvet 
Colorado State Fan
Venice, LA
Member since Nov 2009
12739 posts
Online
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:41 pm to AlaTiger)
quote:
My point is that the Bible, especially in the New Testament, sets up an ethic that tears all of those injustices down - if followed. People have not followed it, however.
Is there any part of the New Testament that you do not believe in?
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navy
Navy Fan
Bannedeville, LA
Member since Sep 2010
3424 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:43 pm to baytiger)
quote:
so since we're less homophobic than the most notorious homophobes on the planet, it's ok?
Just pointing out that it's not just Christians and The Bible.
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DCRebel
Northwestern Fan
Dan's Cafe
Member since Aug 2009
13250 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:51 pm to AlaTiger)
quote:
No, you appeal to the parts that are lasting and are affirmed later under the New Covenant, as you already mentioned regarding Romans. Citing Leviticus just shows that the teaching against homosexuality was not specific to the culture addressed in Romans but was long lasting throughout cultures and times.
Oh, so if it's written more than once in the Bible, it's more valid. I gotcha. I didn't realize the holy, inerrant word of God worked that way. Thanks for clearing it up.
quote:
People have used the bible to justify whatever they want to and they have often ignored the teachings of Jesus.
THAT'S THE POINT! If the Bible were a legitimate book on which to base one's morality, then people wouldn't so routinely frick it up!
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Cruiserhog 
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Apr 2008
2830 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:51 pm to AlaTiger)
quote:
AlaTiger
2. We are not to do violence to people
3. We are not to steal from others
4. We are to give our possessions and lay our life down for others
5. we are all free and there is no difference between people based on race, sex, or social/economic position (including slave/free)
7. We should treat everyone as we want to be treated
8. We should love others sacrificially, even those who are our enemies
If it takes mental gymnastics to understand that, then that is a problem.
and not a single one of those needs the bible or any other divine inspiration to be upheld by humanity as the right way of doing things.
God, Christ, Mohammed, Shiva are irrelevant when it comes to common sense and what is ethically or morally 'right', its just religious people havent quite figured that out yet.
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DCRebel
Northwestern Fan
Dan's Cafe
Member since Aug 2009
13250 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:53 pm to TK421)
quote:
He was speaking at an anti-bullying rally. While doing so, he begins to curse Christians and go off on a diatribe about how horrible the Bible is. When a few Christians get rightfully upset and leave, he calls them a bunch of pussies.
Oh no, we see that. We're not talking about that anymore, though. We're talking about interpretations of the Bible at this point.
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DCRebel
Northwestern Fan
Dan's Cafe
Member since Aug 2009
13250 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 3:53 pm to alajones)
quote:
No one cares about people bashing Christianity. Why do you think he didn't read some stuff from the Quran?
Consider his audience.
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DA
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
16251 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 4:03 pm to Cruiserhog)
The cults have hijacked "morals" in order to have an arrow in their quivers. It's quite embarrassing for them. Cultures have done just fine without Jesus. Even animals and children exhibit "moral" behavior.
Finally, as time goes by, we constantly change the "holy' bible to meet secular morals. As the Bible hasn't held up to modernity.
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navy
Navy Fan
Bannedeville, LA
Member since Sep 2010
3424 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 4:09 pm to Cruiserhog)
quote:
God, Christ, Mohammed, Shiva are irrelevant when it comes to common sense
I know what you mean. For example, common sense tells me that best place to utilize my (God-given) assets are on a woman. 
Carry on.
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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
6631 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 4:11 pm to baytiger)
I suspect that the Bible's condemnation of homo-sexuality, would be no less severe than it's condemnation of fornication and adultery. All three sexual mindsets would be harmful to the spiritual harmony of the family unit. If the unity and stability of the family goes south - especially then when written, or now - there will be a price to pay.
Savage reacts to the imperfection that he witnesses in imperfect Christians. And he becomes that which he despises in others. An angry bigot, and a sanctimonious hypocrite spewing his venom. With little or no chance of convincing others of the merits of his cause. Only inspiring the anger...sewing the wind and reaping a whirlwind.
The day that humanity chooses to serve it's most basic genetic inclinations, over and above time-tested principles like the promotion of healthy family units as being key to promoting the First Principle of Love in society...is the day that Love suffers. And civil and prosperous society.
Homosexuals claim that it is about love...and not sex. And where would greater love be found; in responsibly rearing a successful family, or living large with a partner who fit your genetic eccentricities, without the responsibility and self-sacrifice of having children? Sounds like the easy/selfish choice to me. And the Bible would be right in condemnation of such behavior.
Both Savage and militant homosexuals may want to rethink their own condemnation of the Bible; for it may well be that very document is all that prevents folk who believe there to be great societal harm in perverting social first principles...and acting on their own natural inclinations to negate such danger. My flock of chickens, will turn upon a sick chicken, and peck them to the death. Perfectly Darwinian...and efficient. If that Bible goes...here comes pain.
Moral of the story...it might not be good to justify and legitimize ALL manner of natural instinctual inclinations. At least in Principle. When it is only between 'consenting individuals'...don't matter. But to attempt to justify and change the culture, by law or the moral underpinnings...trouble.
I fear that when the Christians...lose their *Christianity* and loving families are lost...the payback pendulum will swing far, in an equal and opposite reaction to any and all who are perceived to have brought the curse upon the collective. Normal. Justifiable. If anti-Christian.
Time will tell. Fascinating drama.
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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
6631 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 4:21 pm to DA)
quote:
DA
Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant
The cults have hijacked "morals" in order to have an arrow in their quivers. It's quite embarrassing for them. Cultures have done just fine without Jesus. Even animals and children exhibit "moral" behavior.
Finally, as time goes by, we constantly change the "holy' bible to meet secular morals. As the Bible hasn't held up to modernity.
 So DA...as this nation transitions to "secular morality", and begins to attack and undermine traditional Biblical-based morality... you're assessment is that we are feeling more unity? More love? Strong family units? Spiritual prosperity and stability? Happiness and optimism abounds? 
God almighty! "Professing themselves to be wise...they became fools" (Biblical).
I just had to see it, to really believe it would happen. Resident cynic...headin to the garden.
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LSU80 USF08
LSU Fan
Brandon, FL
Member since Nov 2007
2617 posts
| re: Why Dan Savage Was 1000% WRONG in His Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian Rant (Posted on 4/30/12 at 4:31 pm to AlaTiger)
quote:
quote:
That's the fun part of the bible, though. No matter what you say about it, some other reader, somewhere, will claim that you don't know what you're talking about and that you're only wringing its words to "score rhetorical points" or somehow support your perception of reality.
Not really. I am relaying the consensus view here.
If there truly was a 'consensus view', then why do we have Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Baptists, etc, etc? Once I realized the various Christian sects could not all be simultaneously correct I realized that no religions could. They are merely a person's excuse to validate their own beliefs.
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