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Antonio Moss 
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:39 pm to catholictigerfan)
quote:
But I still personally believe on average a household with a mother and a father will be a better household then when there is only a mother or a father.
I don't disagree, but that isn't the issue. No one is going to take children from heterosexual couples and start distributing them to homosexual couples.
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BeeFense5 
Notre Dame Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2010
15787 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:40 pm to Doctor Radical)
quote:
The question is, if "family" is so important as for the church to advocate for the prohibition of gay marriage, why is it not important enough to advocate for the prohibition of divorce?
I'm taking a little bit of time to answer you but I am trying to look up facts of why the church takes a different position on each when it comes to forcing legislation. I am also working too so it's a lot at once. 
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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:45 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
I don't disagree, but that isn't the issue. No one is going to take children from heterosexual couples and start distributing them to homosexual couples.
and I never said that was an issue
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:48 pm to catholictigerfan)
quote:
and I never said that was an issue
But you use it as your (the Church's) justification.
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BeeFense5
Notre Dame Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2010
15787 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:54 pm to Doctor Radical)
quote:
Doctor Radical
From what I gather on the church's position when it comes to legal divorce is that there isn't a push to make it illegal because sometimes it is necessary for the health of the spouse and/or the kids. The church leaves that window for divorce open but when it comes to divorce in the church through annulment, that is just harder to obtain.
The church still teaches divorce is seriously grave and goes strictly against teaching and must be a last resort. But just because you may receive secular divorce may not mean you will receive church support through annulment.
This post was edited on 4/17 at 1:55 pm
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:56 pm to BeeFense5)
quote:
From what I gather on the church's position when it comes to legal divorce is that there isn't a push to make it illegal because sometimes it is necessary for the health of the spouse and/or the kids.
Let's just say I have a much more jaded and cynical idea as to why the Church doesn't push for prohibition on civil divorce.
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LSUnKaty
LSU Fan
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2008
2267 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:58 pm to Spock)
quote:
I cannot support the church in it's attempt to fully outlaw gay marriage. They should only go as far as to say that they will never have gay marriage within the church
So, do you think the church and it's priests will retain their rights as Recognized Marriage Officiants if they refuse to perform certain "legal" marriages?
A marriage is between a man and a woman, anything else is not.
As a Catholic, I say let there be a civil union with all the civil rights and privileges of a marriage, but don't call it "Marriage" and don't force religious to acknowledge/perform it.
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BeeFense5
Notre Dame Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2010
15787 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:58 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
Let's just say I have a much more jaded and cynical idea as to why the Church doesn't push for prohibition on civil divorce.
Care to elaborate?
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BrerTiger 
Auburn Fan
Hell & Ore-gone from da Briar Patch
Member since Sep 2011
7275 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 1:59 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
Let's just say I have a much more jaded and cynical idea as to why the Church doesn't push for prohibition on civil divorce.
Honestly (and you may agree or not) I think they've just made a political calculation that making a political stink over divorce laws is not a fight the bishops can win.
Whereas abortion and gay marriage are bandwagon issues that get easy traction.
Is that more or less jaded than your point of view?
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:00 pm to BeeFense5)
quote:
Care to elaborate?
$$$
Pushing for a prohibition on civil divorce would be alienating a ton of potential weekly donors.
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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:01 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
But you use it as your (the Church's) justification.
there is no issue when it comes to the government taking away children from heterosexual households without justification.
All I said that the most ideal family unit is a father and a mother, and I think we should push to protect his.
I don't see what your trying to get at.
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ocelot4ark 
Arkansas Fan
New York, NY
Member since Oct 2009
6987 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:02 pm to catholictigerfan)
quote:
Psychologist will tell you how a lacking fatherly influence will effect the psychological development of a child, and visa versa. The family is the foundation for all societies and it has the largest impact in the long term on a society. So the Catholic Church sees it as very important to keep that family unit in tact.
I guess, then, that divorce should be illegal. Unwed mothers should be forced to marry the fathers. That would certainly solve all of societies problems!
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Blue Velvet 
Colorado State Fan
Venice, LA
Member since Nov 2009
12617 posts
 Online
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:02 pm to BeeFense5)
quote:
when it comes to legal divorce is that there isn't a push to make it illegal because sometimes it is necessary for the health of the spouse and/or the kids.
Which is never the case with gay marriages?quote:
The church leaves that window for divorce open
Does the church receive money in the annulment process?
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ocelot4ark
Arkansas Fan
New York, NY
Member since Oct 2009
6987 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:02 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
I don't disagree, but that isn't the issue. No one is going to take children from heterosexual couples and start distributing them to homosexual couples.
Probably not. Of course, there's this thing called adoption...
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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
26362 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:03 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
Let's just say I have a much more jaded and cynical idea as to why the Church doesn't push for prohibition on civil divorce.
but the church doesn't call for a prohibition on divorce we aren't completely against it we just discourage it, we think its bad, but we don't bar people from having it.
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:04 pm to catholictigerfan)
quote:
I don't see what your trying to get at.
That this . . .
quote:
All I said that the most ideal family unit is a father and a mother, and I think we should push to protect his.
isn't in danger. It's a red herring. If gay marriage were legalized, straight married people aren't going to suddenly run to the courts to get divorces so that they can marry someone of the same sex and raise their kids.
When the Church brings up the issue of protecting the family unit, the sole question, in my opinion, should be whether children are generically the same or better off with a same-sex couple when compared to a single parent.
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ocelot4ark
Arkansas Fan
New York, NY
Member since Oct 2009
6987 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:05 pm to BeeFense5)
quote:
From what I gather on the church's position when it comes to legal divorce is that there isn't a push to make it illegal because sometimes it is necessary for the health of the spouse and/or the kids. The church leaves that window for divorce open but when it comes to divorce in the church through annulment, that is just harder to obtain.
The church still teaches divorce is seriously grave and goes strictly against teaching and must be a last resort. But just because you may receive secular divorce may not mean you will receive church support through annulment.
And this absurd stance is exactly what drove my GF away from the Catholic church. When her dad cheated on her mother, the mom wanted a divorce. The church never recognized it. Said she should work harder. Any church that would do/say something like that, in light of all of the bull shite stuff they've pulled over the years, can eat a big fat dick.
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Doctor Radical
LSU Fan
Austin
Member since Feb 2008
10258 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:05 pm to BeeFense5)
quote:
But just because you may receive secular divorce may not mean you will receive church support through annulment.
And I can totally dig that.
Which gets to the second question of why the government would force the church to conduct gay marriages but not force them to conduct divorces.
Or put another way:
Since the government does not require the church to conduct divorces, why would they require them to perform gay marriages?
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:06 pm to catholictigerfan)
quote:
but the church doesn't call for a prohibition on divorce we aren't completely against it we just discourage it, we think its bad, but we don't bar people from having it.
Exactly.
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ocelot4ark
Arkansas Fan
New York, NY
Member since Oct 2009
6987 posts
| re: open letter from lay Catholic, about gay rights (Posted on 4/17/12 at 2:07 pm to Antonio Moss)
quote:
When the Church brings up the issue of protecting the family unit, the sole question, in my opinion, should be whether children are generically the same or better off with a same-sex couple when compared to a single parent.
Exactly. We have to protect the family, but by God, don't use a condom. Unwed, teenage mother raising a child is MUCH better than a couple of gays getting married because they love each other.
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