Message Boards Team Forums LSU Sites |
|
| Posted by | Message | trackfan 
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10897 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 7:57 am to Zach)
quote:
Genetically inferior is a general term. IQ is very specific. Blacks are about 20 points below Jews, about 15 below whites and about 8 below Mexicans. It's not opinion. It's science. But if it makes you feel bad feel free to dismiss it.
And I'll ask you the same questions I asked CT. Is your working definition of IQ something that is set in stone when you're born? Or is it something that can also be developed after birth at different rates based on the environment and culture that one is raised in? By the way, what made you think I was trying to dismiss anything? I only want to know where you're coming from, it's nothing personal.
This post was edited on 4/6 at 8:00 am
| | Back to top | | Y.A. Tittle
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
44093 posts
 Online
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 8:02 am to trackfan)
quote:
understand Black folks at all.
What the hell does this even mean? Is this something you submit one should be able to do? Are you of the position that YOU "understand black folks"?
| | Back to top | | trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10897 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 8:25 am to CarrolltonTiger)
quote:
Are you really caliming St Aug is elitist and does not take in lots of lower class blacks?
I'm not sure what you know about st Aug, but particularly since the white Cathoilc High Schools began to take in the qualified Black students, St Aug isn't academically or socially elite by any real measure. Perhaps in the days of integration but not today.
I'll admit that St. Aug isn't what it used to be, especially since Katrina, but the decline started before then. However, even you have to admit that in prior years, it was anything but dysfunctional, and remained elite long after desegregation. Black elites didn't immediately take their kids out of St. Aug when the Bishop ordered the desegregation of the parochial school system in the 1960's. It's reputation in the Black community remained intact for at least 20 years after that. I think the decline was caused by economic pressure when it started losing its best teachers to the public school system and other professions which paid more. As time went by, that pay gap contunued to widen. On the other hand, the Josephites were reluctant to raise tuition to the level necessary to keep these teachers, who were mostly St. Aug alum, for fear of pricing the school out of the reach of many of the parents who sent their sons there. Other schools (eg. Jesuit, Brother Martin, etc.), which were better funded and drew students from wealthier families didn't have these things to consider.
| | Back to top | | CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44017 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 8:26 am to trackfan)
quote:
I've read that there is more genetic variation on the continent of Africa than there is on the entire rest of the planet combined.
What do you understand that to mean?
quote:
Is your working definition of IQ something that is set in stone when you're born? Or is it something that can also be developed after birth at different rates based on the environment and culture that one is raised in?
As I wrote above, it is largely set at birth, not set in stone but the materials are there. It can be marginally influenced byenvironment.
quote:
Really? I'm surprised that you would dismiss the cultural and environmental differences in this manner, but I appreciate your candor.
Why? I believe my views are consistent with most IQ research.
quote:
This reminds me of the story of Tamir Goodman...
Why? What does that anecdote have to do with anything?
quote:
And you only focused on the physical environment, but don't overlook the mental and cultural environment. If your parents don't give a frick, it doesn't matter how well fed and healthy you are.
I don't think I focused on anything in particular, but the fact is parents that don't give a frick are generally stupid, cognitively deficient people, so there is a certain symmetry to the relationship between IQ and success. It s unlikely many Einsteins aren't being nurtured properly by their cognitively deficient parents. A kid with an 85 IQ is limited no matter who raises him. Adopted childrne have been studied, twins seperated have been studied, there is a lot of research on IQ.
| | Back to top | | CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44017 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 8:32 am to trackfan)
quote:
it was anything but dysfunctional, and remained elite long after desegregation.
I never suggested it was dysfunctional, the Josephites work very hard with their mission. But it was never anything more than mediocre academically at any point in its history.
quote:
It's reputation in the Black community remained intact for at least 20 years after that.
I think it remains respected today in that community.
quote:
Other schools (eg. Jesuit, Brother Martin, etc.), which were better funded and drew students from wealthier families didn't have these things to consider.
St Aug was never an academically elite school, it was an elite school for Blacks, no more no less. To compare it to Jesuit or even Brother Martin is absurd.
| | Back to top | | trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10897 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 9:03 am to CarrolltonTiger)
quote:
As I wrote above, it is largely set at birth, not set in stone but the materials are there. It can be marginally influenced byenvironment.
1) What does "marginally influenced by environment" mean? Is it something you would quantify as a percentage? If so, how would you measure this percentage?
2) As long as you admit that environment has some influence, as opposed to zero influence, doesn't it also follow that in order to make a conclusive determination on this issue, there would also need to be a study done which neutralized the environmental factors? Obviously, the study couldn't start at birth, due to the nutrition issues that you mentioned earlier, but according to doctors who study this sort of thing, it also wouldn't be sufficient to neutralize the environment at conception. They say that you would need to control the environment of the BOTH parents for at least a year or two before conception. I was actually surprised to hear that the health of the father mattered so much. Coincidentally, the doctor who told me about this part of OB/GYN and prenatal development science is a Jewish Holocaust survivor.
quote:
Why? I believe my views are consistent with most IQ research.
They are consistent with your interpretation of IQ research.
quote:
Why? What does that anecdote have to do with anything?
The anecdote obviously has a tangental relationship to our discussion, and it came to mind. No big deal.
quote:
Adopted childrne have been studied, twins seperated have been studied, there is a lot of research on IQ.
I've seen stories of adopted twins separated at birth that were raised in similar environments, but I haven't seen much on twins that were raised in completely different environments.
By the way, what's you take on the Churchill quote that I gave earlier?
| | Back to top | | CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44017 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/6/12 at 9:40 am to trackfan)
quote:
1) What does "marginally influenced by environment" mean? Is it something you would quantify as a percentage? If so, how would you measure this percentage?
Yes, you could quantify it by percentage. IQ is the measurement.
quote:
doesn't it also follow that in order to make a conclusive determination on this issue, there would also need to be a study done which neutralized the environmental factors?
Yes, there are many studies that have measured envrionmental factors. Take a look at the Bell curve, it covers all of this in a rather organized. clear manner.
quote:
By the way, what's you take on the Churchill quote that I gave earlier?
 I don't recall your quote,
| | Back to top | | trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10897 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/10/12 at 6:59 am to CarrolltonTiger)
quote:
Yes, you could quantify it by percentage. IQ is the measurement.
I realize that, but in order to determine which part of the IQ discrepency is due to genes and which part is due to culture and environment, a study on sufficiently large sample sizes would need to be conducted in which the cultural and environmental factors were COMPLETELY neutralized. No such study has ever been done.
quote:
Yes, there are many studies that have measured envrionmental factors. Take a look at the Bell curve, it covers all of this in a rather organized. clear manner.
This doesn't address the issue I'm talking about.
quote:
quote:
By the way, what's you take on the Churchill quote that I gave earlier?
I don't recall your quote,
Here it is again:
Churchill regarding the usurpation/ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians to create a Jewish state: "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
I also gave a Buckley quote:
Buckley regarding Jim Crow: "The central question that emerges . . . is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not prevail numerically? The sobering answer is Yes-the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is a fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists."
| | Back to top | | CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44017 posts
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/10/12 at 8:07 am to trackfan)
quote:
. No such study has ever been done.
Many studies have been done, IQ has been studied thoroughly and continues to be studied.
quote:
This doesn't address the issue I'm talking about.
Yes it does. You don't want to look at the material so you claim it does not exist.
quote:
Here it is again:
Churchill was a great colonialist, the age of empire is over, he is wrong. International law changed considerably in the last 80 years. While reparations for events of others hundreds of years ago are not required, the "manger" by our standards of collective security and opposition to aggression has become more stable.
Buckley is on target, but his comments are reflective of the entire US where the Negro question exists, not just the south. And the relationship has nothing to do with as you seem to suggest imperialism. Negroes are not the indigenous people of the US being replaced by an advancing culture. If we want to reach for parallels why not consider you guys as "guest workers".
| | Back to top | | Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
55460 posts
Online
| re: A question about Racism and Hatred of Others (Posted on 4/10/12 at 9:48 am to trackfan)
quote:
Is your working definition of IQ something that is set in stone when you're born? Or is it something that can also be developed after birth at different rates based on the environment and culture that one is raised in?
IQ is genetic. So, it is set in stone. Combined mom and dad plus or minus five. This assumes not having some biological defect. IE, mom's IQ is 120, dad's is 122. Jr. will have an IQ from 116 to 126. Development after birth deals with knowledge, not IQ. IQ is not knowledge, it's capacity to attain knowledge.
| | Back to top | |
Back to top
|
|
