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re: Anyone listen to doug gottlieb on M&M this morning?
Posted on 3/29/11 at 3:53 pm to BayouBengals03
Posted on 3/29/11 at 3:53 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
I like Gottlieb, but that was kind of bad.
Either way, I don't know why he cares that people are bashing the tournament. It's not like that matters, because it's never going to change
I guess i'd say it was a complete unnecessary insecurity... ? He should just have fun with the bashing instead of all serious and upset.
1
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:00 pm to Chad504boy
Exactly. I mean, I love the tournament. I love the setup, the excitement, and I think it's a cool way to end the season and crown a champion.
It's definitely not the best way to determine a champion, but we have to see both the competitive and financial side of things. That's just the way life is.
Also, I know some people want to cut down on all of the teams and give the small-majors their own division. This way, we could have a tournament that is smaller and determines a champion better, as well as brands the big name programs like Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, and Kentucky. However, I would like to point out that a 1 or 2 seed wins the NCAA Tournament the overwhelming majority of the time, AND if UK wins it all this year, the last four national champions will be Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, and Kentucky. Funny huh?
It's definitely not the best way to determine a champion, but we have to see both the competitive and financial side of things. That's just the way life is.
Also, I know some people want to cut down on all of the teams and give the small-majors their own division. This way, we could have a tournament that is smaller and determines a champion better, as well as brands the big name programs like Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, and Kentucky. However, I would like to point out that a 1 or 2 seed wins the NCAA Tournament the overwhelming majority of the time, AND if UK wins it all this year, the last four national champions will be Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, and Kentucky. Funny huh?
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they developed a line of "logic" about a playoff that they accept as true without wondering how it developed
Sports to me are purely for entertainment value. IMO an 8 team playoff would not reduce the importance of the regular season very much at all, would leave the left out teams a little less reason to bitch, and would make for an insane amount of entertainment the last month.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:26 pm to white_kong
quote:
Sports to me are purely for entertainment value. IMO an 8 team playoff would not reduce the importance of the regular season very much at all, would leave the left out teams a little less reason to bitch, and would make for an insane amount of entertainment the last month.
I can appreciate this attitude, but the entertainment value is not debatable, it's finding the fairest way to crown a champion. Who knows, there might not be any perfect system out there, but we don't have one that's any better than the other ATM.
Personally, I would be frustrated if LSU got through a whole season undefeated and instead of playing a NC game, we had to beat a 2-loss team in a 1st round playoff game.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:28 pm to nvasil1
quote:
I can appreciate this attitude, but the entertainment value is not debatable, it's finding the fairest way to crown a champion
I think it's absolutely debatable when you consider what drives sports in the first place.
This post was edited on 3/29/11 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:28 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
if UK wins it all this year, the last four national champions will be Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, and Kentucky.
No one seems to complain when this happens. Between the NCAA tourney and the BCS, it seems the only constant is that bitching about the systems ensues whenever one of the non-anointed 8-10 teams in each sport begin to sniff a championship.
Every system is subjective and measuring a championship is subjective. Why 30 games against 20 teams and not 60? There is no answer, but to the new haters of the NCCA tourney, just be honest and admit that D-1 should be no more than about 70 schools in CBB and 60 in CFB from the "power conferences." That's what you want, right? No possible scenario would justify a team outside the power conferences winning. Don't hate the tourney, advocate to limit DI eligibility.
This post was edited on 3/29/11 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:36 pm to white_kong
quote:
I think it's absolutely debatable when you consider what drives sports in the first place.
Exactly, so who's debating otherwise? I don't know anyone that doesn't love March Madness as a spectacle. Knockout competitions by nature generate excitement and drama. That's not the issue though. The issue is with people like Gottlieb who start pouting when someone presents the cons of such a competition declaring a champion.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 4:42 pm to Ghostfacedistiller
quote:
There is no answer but to the new haters of the NCCA tourney, just be honest and admit say D-1 should be no more than about 70 schools in CBB and 60 in CFB from the "power conferences." That's what you want, right? No possible scenario would justify a team outside the power conferences winning. Don't hate the tourney, advocate to limit DI eligibility.
This is what they want. But how do you determine which conferences stay major DI and which move down? In basketball, can you really move the Colonial Athletic Conference down when it has produced two Final Four teams in the last 6 years? Same with the Horizon League.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 5:06 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
This is what they want. But how do you determine which conferences stay major DI and which move down? In basketball, can you really move the Colonial Athletic Conference down when it has produced two Final Four teams in the last 6 years? Same with the Horizon League.
Good question. How do you do it with college football? Do you actually tell Boise St. that they can't sit at the adult table anymore? How do Notre Dame and BYU fill schedules as independents without playing murderer's row every year?
I don't know if I would be in favor of cutting D-I; college football is full of schools that develop into national powers out of nowhere. Look at Florida St., Miami, TCU, Louisville, Utah just to name a few that parlayed their success into BCS conference invites. Cutting down the division would prevent another school from emerging.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 5:12 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
But how do you determine which conferences stay major DI and which move down? In basketball, can you really move the Colonial Athletic Conference down when it has produced two Final Four teams in the last 6 years? Same with the Horizon League.
Apparently to the haters they should be moved down as the Horizon and CAA can only produce flukes. However over the last 6 years in the Final Four, the CAA has more teams and appearances than the Big 12 and more teams than the Pac 10. The Horizon league has the same number of teams as the Pac 10 and Big 12 (1) and also more appearances than the Big 12.
No system is perfect. Period. Once you agree on that and pick one, it's up to the teams to perform. Kansas may be "better" than VCU but they have known the rules of the game as long as anyone else. The system weighs post season games more than the regular season, this is not a shock. If you peak in February, tough shite, poor planning and player development.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 5:16 pm to Chad504boy
Dont know about this interview but I think Gottlieb is one of the best guys espn has on the payroll. Im not mad at him for defending his favorite sport.
Posted on 3/29/11 at 5:18 pm to nvasil1
quote:
Cutting down the division would prevent another school from emerging.
Yes, it would. I'm not advocating this and nor is it practical, but that is the answer to the haters of any non blueblood winning. TCU beating Wisconsin? Fluke, didn't play a real schedule and the Big 10 sucks anyway. Boise? Fluke, would get crushed playing a "tough SEC schedule." VCU and Butler? Accidental, streaking and lucky.
There is no win with these people; nothing is acceptable. There is no right answer. Period. Pick a system and adapt to it. If you fail to adapt, you lose. Butler has it figured out and they are #WINNING! FWIW the NCAA tourney is more like real life anyway; all games are not equal. If you blow it when it counts, all the piddly accomplishments don't mean as much.
This post was edited on 3/29/11 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 3/29/11 at 5:21 pm to Ghostfacedistiller
quote:
No system is perfect. Period. Once you agree on that and pick one, it's up to the teams to perform. Kansas may be "better" than VCU but they have known the rules of the game as long as anyone else. The system weighs post season games more than the regular season, this is not a shock.
One of the most rational posts I've seen on this topic. This makes me think of USC's players wearing "frick the BCS" t-shirts for the '04 season, even though their school and conference agreed to that system and without the BCS, they would never have played Oklahoma and Texas for the NC.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 8:57 am to nvasil1
quote:
This makes me think of USC's players wearing "frick the BCS" t-shirts for the '04 season, even though their school and conference agreed to that system and without the BCS,
It's basically the same thing, although USC at least had an argument because they didn't get the opportunity unlike all the big time CBB teams. They were wrong, but at least they had a case as that year the "faults" of the BCS system were exposed. To be fair, I don't think any of CBB teams like KU are actually complaining about the system like USC did, it's just fans and commentators.
Posted on 3/30/11 at 9:07 am to Ghostfacedistiller
When we look at the MLB and NBA, they are fairly comparable even though I think less teams make it to playoffs in MLB but comparable in that both use a Best of series to determine winners that move along in brackets.
Even College baseball uses a system that is not a one and done type setup.
If NCAA basketball only allowed lets say 32 teams and did a best of 3 series or something similar to NCAA baseball, you will find a more truer champion than the current setup.
Even College baseball uses a system that is not a one and done type setup.
If NCAA basketball only allowed lets say 32 teams and did a best of 3 series or something similar to NCAA baseball, you will find a more truer champion than the current setup.
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