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Message
Is talent or coaching more important for success in cbb?
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:42 pm
I feel that great coaching can take below average talent and make them competitive what are your thoughts.
9
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:53 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
I feel that great coaching can take below average talent and make them competitive what are your thoughts.
100% true.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:55 pm to SG_Geaux
To be consistently successful you would obviously need both. But, if I had to choose one, I'd take talent.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:57 pm to Topwater Trout
Great talent doesn't always win you a championship but you'll never win one without it.
Bobby Bowden
Bobby Bowden
Posted on 12/27/10 at 12:59 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
I feel that great coaching can take below average talent and make them competitive what are your thoughts.
Sure. But you aren't going to win championships without talent.
Name one BCS champ that doesn't repeatedly pull top recruiting classes.
Alabama
Florida
LSU
Texas
USC
Ohio State
Miami
Oklahoma
These teams typically dominate recruiting. THere is a direct correlation between recruiting success and on-field success.
Sure, you need good coaching, too. Witness FSU for the last few years.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:01 pm to Topwater Trout
This is a thread about college basketball not college football right (the title indicates this)?
Winning National Championships with Superior Talent by John Calipari...
will never be the title of a book.
You obviously need superior players, but having a competent coach with better game management is integral in the NCAA tournament.
Look at how Tom Izzo got a team with their best player injured to the Final Four last year, or a team without a true superstar to the finals the previous year. Hell even Brad Stevens made the finals with one fringe NBA player in Gordon Hayward last year.
Winning National Championships with Superior Talent by John Calipari...
will never be the title of a book.
You obviously need superior players, but having a competent coach with better game management is integral in the NCAA tournament.
Look at how Tom Izzo got a team with their best player injured to the Final Four last year, or a team without a true superstar to the finals the previous year. Hell even Brad Stevens made the finals with one fringe NBA player in Gordon Hayward last year.
This post was edited on 12/27/10 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:21 pm to thenry712
quote:
This is a thread about college basketball not college football right (the title indicates this)?
Yes. I haven't watched the basketball team this year but had a friend telling me how we have some talent. TJ was very highly regarded as a coach so I am wondering what the deal is. So I was just wondering what everyone else thought. When I played in Highschool and junior high...which I know is not comparible) we routinely beat teams with more talent because we were fundamentally sound. Also its not like we have been playing top 25 teams that have a severe talent advantage....so I guess the real question should be is TJ a good coach?
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:24 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Sure. But you aren't going to win championships without talent.
Name one BCS champ that doesn't repeatedly pull top recruiting classes.
Alabama
Florida
LSU
Texas
USC
Ohio State
Miami
Oklahoma
These teams typically dominate recruiting. THere is a direct correlation between recruiting success and on-field success.
Sure, you need good coaching, too. Witness FSU for the last few years.
Yeh it was more about college basketball. I think the dynamics are different in hoops.....teams such as butler and gonzaga etc are able to play with the big boys and they aren't loaded with talent.
I agree with you about football 100%
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:28 pm to Topwater Trout
you left off a couple of things.
height.
speed.
the element which distinguishes the high end BCS teams from the entire rest of D-1 is the speed of the point guards.
If you dont have the material (no height and no speed), you are looking at good coaching to teach fundamentals and team play.
height.
speed.
the element which distinguishes the high end BCS teams from the entire rest of D-1 is the speed of the point guards.
If you dont have the material (no height and no speed), you are looking at good coaching to teach fundamentals and team play.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 1:35 pm to ottothewise
quote:
you left off a couple of things.
height.
speed.
Sure having all that would be great. Apparently we do not and have lost to the likes of UNT, Nicholls St. and Wichita St.
So with little talent coaching should be the most important factor in keeping us competitive this year.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 2:13 pm to Topwater Trout
Talent. With only great coaching, youre Boise or TCU.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 2:16 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
I feel that great coaching can take below average talent and make them competitive what are your thoughts.
I agree with that to an extent, but talent is still the most important factor. Look at say Saban record at Mich State vs LSU and Bama
Posted on 12/27/10 at 2:28 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
I feel that great coaching can take below average talent and make them competitive what are your thoughts.
true, but there are great coaches who make it work with another formula. A good mix of coaching and talent.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 3:32 pm to Topwater Trout
Chicken shite is still CS no matter who the coach is........good players makes a good coach.....poor players makes a bad coach.......
Posted on 12/27/10 at 3:41 pm to Bobby Moore
quote:
good players makes a good coach.....poor players makes a bad coach.
This is an awful naive concept.
Obviously talent can only go so far. ULL could have the greatest coach in football history and still probably never win a National Championship with their currently athletes.
That being said, great athletes don't automatically perform great. A perfect example is our 2008 defense. Everyone who started that year played in either 2007 or 2009 - two very respectable defenses. Yet, we were much less than respectable that year - why? Coaching.
Does Boise and TCU have the best athletes in CFB? No. Can either of those two teams play with anyone on any random day? Yes.
Superior talent alone only gets you so far. I would say that being a great team is 65% coaching and 35% talent.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 3:57 pm to Antonio Moss
Talent in college basketball matters more. Brady went to a Final Four. What more info do you need to realize that talent got him there, not coaching.
This post was edited on 12/27/10 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 12/27/10 at 4:01 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
Brady went to a Final Four.
Basketball is different than football. You get one or two stars in NCAA basketball and you can make a run. Not so much in college football.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 4:03 pm to Antonio Moss
That's what I'm saying. Talent matters more in cbb and you can win despite coaching. Not true in football necessarily, but it certainly helps.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 4:24 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
Talent matters more in cbb and you can win despite coaching.
I disagree there are alot of teams that win and are very succesful in cbb that have no or very little talent. Just look at some of the teams in the Big 10 like Wisconsin and Purdue for the most part they have avg players but play outstanding and sound defense and also run offenses that aren't flashy but screen defenses to death and make all the extra passes etc.
A coach that teaches fundamentals can go further in cbb than cfb w/o talent.
Brady had some good assistants that helped our highly talented teams make the final 4.
Posted on 12/27/10 at 4:33 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
I disagree there are alot of teams that win and are very succesful in cbb that have no or very little talent. Just look at some of the teams in the Big 10 like Wisconsin and Purdue for the most part they have avg players but play outstanding and sound defense and also run offenses that aren't flashy but screen defenses to death and make all the extra passes etc.
A coach that teaches fundamentals can go further in cbb than cfb w/o talent.
Brady had some good assistants that helped our highly talented teams make the final 4.
You don't think those basketball teams have talent? E'Twaun Moore is a senior and is a damn good player for Purdue. He was a top 50 player coming out of high school.
Those teams have talent, you just don't know it because you aren't really knowledgeable on the subject matter.
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