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re: United Methodist Church votes to allow gay marriage and gay clergy

Posted on 5/2/24 at 11:47 am to
Posted by Stitches
Member since Oct 2019
916 posts
Posted on 5/2/24 at 11:47 am to
quote:

When a congregation or denomination makes some other thing a higher authority than the Scriptures in terms of determining doctrine, then they are not adhering to sola scriptura. This is not a "no true Scotsman" fallacy


quote:

If a professing Christian is claiming that the Bible as their highest authority commands them to support these things, then that's a different conversation about hermeneutics.


The UMC is making these decisions based on how it's leaders interpret scripture.

In other words, they are allowing publicly practicing homosexuals to be ordained and married within the church based on what they think scripture teaches.

However, according to you, no true adherent of Sola Scriptura would interpret scripture in such a way as to support these recent doctrines of the UMC.

That is quite literally the No true Scotsman fallacy.
Posted by riccoar
Arkansas
Member since Mar 2006
3034 posts
Posted on 5/2/24 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

The UMC is making these decisions based on how it's leaders interpret scripture.


And anyone with 2 brain cells knows that interpretation would not stand with literal application of The Holy Bible.

I can find a church and pastor that say it’s OK for me to bang my neighbors wife. With enough twisting, people’s interpretation can change reality. Or so they believe.

Just because man interprets something as excusable and ordinary does not dismiss what GOD says it is.

HIS authority is without question.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
41838 posts
Posted on 5/2/24 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

The UMC is making these decisions based on how it's leaders interpret scripture.

In other words, they are allowing publicly practicing homosexuals to be ordained and married within the church based on what they think scripture teaches.

However, according to you, no true adherent of Sola Scriptura would interpret scripture in such a way as to support these recent doctrines of the UMC.

That is quite literally the No true Scotsman fallacy.
Not at all, and I explained why in my last post, which you didn't quote adequately.

I said, "If a professing Christian is claiming that the Bible as their highest authority commands them to support these things, then that's a different conversation about hermeneutics."

The problem here is that there are those who might officially hold to sola scriptura--as the UMC claims to hold to--while, in practice, they view the Scriptures through the lens of culture or other standards of truth (as progressive Christians do), and in doing so, they functionally place other standards as higher than the Bible, which is definitionally contrary to sola scriptura. And if they claim that they aren't holding other standards higher than the Scriptures while rejecting its clear teachings, then it becomes a conversation about hermeneutics and how they are not interpreting the Bible according to the Bible, as the Bible, itself, requires us to do in order to make the Scriptures meaningful (a rejection of subjective interpretations being equally valid among each other).

And to save space, I'll reply to another post here:

quote:

The point of my original response to Foo was to point out the flaw in his argument that Sola Scriptura adhering denominations don't have this issue, when in fact, ONLY Sola Scriptura adhering denominations have this issue.
I actually said that this is what happens when you move away from sola scriptura. I didn't say anything about an official doctrinal recognition of sola scriptura, but an active moving away from it, which is exactly what these people have done. They have rejected the clear words of God in favor of their own desires for "love" and inclusivity, which they are functionally holding as higher standards than the very word of God.


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