none of those are approved in the US for human use but when tren was approved in the 70s for human use in france...how many "roid rage" incidents were there?

how many roid rage incidents are there compared to alcohol?

cant have it both ways. either alcohol should be completely banned and made illegal and felony to possess or steroids should be decriminalized. both can be used responsibly and both can be abused

quote:
This is where I could not disagree more. Doctors have to get an undergraduate degree, go to medical school, undergo several thousands of hours of training, and then do a residency before they are making real cash. You may disagree with their application of medicine, but to call most of them "not very smart" is not something any reasonable person would say and it reduces credibility.

punching symptoms into a computer and writing a script is not being smart in preventative care

are doctors smart people 100% . you dont become a doctor being dumb. just many PCP become lazy because they deal with dumb people all day who many times are looking for pills, making up the symptoms or the symptoms are almost exclusively all mental. they become almost jaded. Atleast in the PCP world

like i said doctors are smart AF as people. If they are actually concentrating and want to solve a problem, again smart AF. specialist are smart AF.

sorry but i have had doctors tell me keto is a weight gaining diet. i have had them tell me lifting weights are dangerous. I have had them tell me testosterone levels of below 300 for a 30 year old man dont matter, have had them tell me being over 20% bodyfat doesnt matter. again not that they are not smart but they are not trained in preventative medicine and living a healthy lifestyle.

quote:
To the first part of this, I've seen other posts where you specifically told someone to forget what their doctor said and stay on a specific dose of mounjaro.

yea god forbid i tell someone that is losing weight to not up the dose because that is what elly lilly says to do. god forbid i tell someone to lose the minimal effective dosing while still losing weight because Big pharma says do this and not that.

quote:
And you don't have to take no for an answer. There are plenty of independent labs where you can buy a panel, get the bloodwork done independently, and analyze it yourself. Asking the doctor to do something they don't think is worth it while also then wanting to make them be the ones to prescribe the care is antithetical to your logic.

plenty of doctors, especially pcp, are completely uncomfortable prescribing male hormones even if levels are low. either the doctor wants to treat the issues or fine a new one.

quote:
I actually don't feel like doctors are gods. I get very frustrated with doctors when I go to them and they tell me less than I've already read up on. But we have them for a reason, and that reason is that a lot of people do not understand health, well-being, chemistry, biology, etc. They could read medical studies, but not everyone has 1. the interest or 2. the aptitude

then dont be a doctor if you dont have the interest or aptitude and if you as a patient dont have them things cool, that is why we have doctors but if i go read up on it and know more than you, well you need to refer me to someone.

quote:
Some people don't have the strengths in health/medicine/science, and for those people, they should just listen to their doctor. And again, a libertarian telling them that all doctors are idiots, does nothing. And unless you want to go back to medical school and provide their care, they should listen to their medical professional.

if the doctor is a good doctor and not just one that punches things in a tablet, i agree 100%.

its like the engineers i work with that only understand the book and what it says. and then they design something on a computer and then are flabbergasted when they go to install and it doesnt work in the field when they have never been to the field to look. same thing.

if as a doctor, dont know an area....send them somewhere else. those are the best doctors, the ones that know their strengths and weaknesses. i love those.

quote:
A doctor is free to tell you to frick off. You can tell a doctor to frick off. But this blanket of "doctor's don't know anything" and then spreading that message to people coming here looking for help/support is, IMO, reductionist.

like i said, 99% of doctors dont know shite about male hormones and that is ok so long as they refer them to those that do and that is what i was talking about

i have never said doctors are dumb without context.

specialists are some of the smartest people on earth some are just OK

some PCP are amazing, some suck

its the same as every technical field.

and my libertarian comment has nothing to do with comments about doctors. I was talking my feelings on steroids and pretty much all drugs being legal. but doctor orgs, the FDA, DEA etc all felt steroids should not be controlled nor did they meet any of the requirements to become a scheduled drug. so if you believe they know best, then how come you dont think they do in this case?