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Message
re: Man I love renovating a house...
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:12 am to tadman
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:12 am to tadman
quote:
We hired a couple contractors
After reading your rant it's obvious you are hiring handymen. Not contractors. Big difference and the majority of handymen are on drugs, drink, and/or have a piss poor personal life too.
How many asked you for an advance on the pay?
0
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:13 am to tadman
On the whole, contractors have to attract the lowest scum of the earth. I've had awful experiences that made me reconsider humanity
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:15 am to The Third Leg
quote:
My neighbors have a $1.5M house. They did a massive renovation on it last year. Half million dollar budget—hired a GC that is well known and highly respected in the area. This guy lives in our neighborhood and has done restoration on a lot of properties. Clean cut cracker, wife is a physician. They started in May 2022, were supposed to be done by Xmas, and are still waiting on a handful of things. They were displaced from their home for over a year. Guy did the demo and did nothing for 3 months. Took on way too many projects simultaneously and fricked them hard.
All that still doesn't mean he wasn't on the cheaper spectrum or that sometimes the most expensive person is crap too. Obviously I'm speaking in generalities.
I guess my point should be that people buy services like they buy a product like a vacuum or a car; find the lowest price. But unfortunately its not that easy as they are different things.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:18 am to tadman
Reading this I'm thankful we managed to find a contractor that actually can keep a schedule and takes on work that is just too big for us. We found him back when the housing market and economy was shite back in 2010-2011. Did all sorts of small stuff for us back then to make ends meet. Once things heated, thankfully still takes our calls. He's not cheap at all and it's tough to get on his calendar to schedule the work, but once you're on, he and his crew show up right at 7:00am and work through 3:30 pretty much non-stop until the project is complete. He usually schedules a follow up a couple weeks out with one of his guys to take care of any issues that we find living with the updates for a couple weeks. Things like paint chips or drawers not closing correctly, uneven stain etc.
We've had quotes on work come in up to 30% less than him on certain jobs. But always just suck it up and pay the extra money because we know he'll show up and the work won't go on for an unnecessary amount of time.
We've had quotes on work come in up to 30% less than him on certain jobs. But always just suck it up and pay the extra money because we know he'll show up and the work won't go on for an unnecessary amount of time.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:31 am to tadman
quote:
I'm about to buy one of thoes $2500 pop up campers off marketplace and go live in the state park until this project is done.
We've done a lot of our own work, and I'm a reasonably handy guy. We've painted over half of the interior ourselves and it looks GREAT.
We hired a couple contractors to do other parts and it is a struggle ever friggin day. Corners cut, showing up late, arguments over scopes... Keeping in mind my work is in the trades as well so this is not a mystery to me how this stuff all works.
Biggest problem is showing up on time. In 8 weeks I've had one contractor show up for thier self-designated state time, ONCE. Like GTFO man how can you look yourself in the mirror?
Today, "my car needs a new battery, it's too cold to keep using the old one". You couldn't do that at 7pm last night? Couldnt do that today at Autozone on the way??? Bro I've changed batteries, Stevie Wonder could do that in ten minutes!!!
Meanwhile the painter is going to put a third coat on the TV room walls because he forgot to patch the west wall, and the east wall that I patched, he painted right over without sanding down the spackle flush with the wall. My wall has chicken pox. He's got to be wondering when he's going to stop losing money for lack of managing his guys, right? Right???
I have given up on paying anyone a damned penny to do a damned thing for me and mine. If I can't manage it on my own It just aint getting done. We have a lake lot that I am about to start clearing and building on and I got a quote from a contractor with a stellar reputation. It was more than the lot is worth LOL. I can do it for about 10% of what the contractor quoted. He did not want to look at it at all. When I contacted him the first thing he did was tell me he had a minimum cost and estimates were $60. Normally I would have told him to kiss my rusty red arse but his attitude intrigued me and what's $60? When he game me the quote it was nearly 8 times what his minimum cost was. Took him exactly 8 seconds, I timed him, to do an estimate. I will do everything on this build from the grading to the roof. I will have to hire some day labor but I ain't fricking with no small nor no medium nor no large business. I have gone back to doing all my own mechanicing on everything and I have never paid anyone to do any maintenance on a house so it isn't that much of a stretch. When we get done with this build we are done period. No more.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:31 am to tadman
I feel for you, went through it after Ida.
It’s like it is news to them they were hired to not only do a job, but to do it better than I can because I don’t do it as a job.
It’s like it is news to them they were hired to not only do a job, but to do it better than I can because I don’t do it as a job.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:34 am to tadman
contractors are used car salesmen
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 10:35 am
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:35 am to tadman
Between contractors and insurance, my life has been one big ball of stress the past few months.
It’s exhausting.
It’s exhausting.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:37 am to The Third Leg
quote:
Guy did the demo and did nothing for 3 months. Took on way too many projects simultaneously
This is what I don’t understand about these Reno guys. If you can’t get around to the re-build for three months, hold off on the demo. This happened to us years ago and it was bad. They came in tore everything out then, didn’t show back up for six weeks. The job was supposed to take 6 weeks ended up over 4 months.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:46 am to Turnblad85
quote:
All that still doesn't mean he wasn't on the cheaper spectrum or that sometimes the most expensive person is crap too. Obviously I'm speaking in generalities.
He’s not on the cheaper end of the spectrum, he is high priced. I’ve had him bid projects and his prices are outrageous. Half million on what they did was a gouge and good quality Mexican GCs would have been $300. They hired him for reputation and reliability, thinking he would knock it out quick. The finish work was impeccable, but the guy is in such demand he took the greedy approach, got a ton of contracts, and made the clients suffer because there is only so much vetted labor. To his credit, he didn’t go get scrubs off the street to do the work when that’s what a lot of them do, but the time to completion is a major disturbance to one’s life.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:52 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
estimates were $60.
I know of several reputable contractors going to a fee-based estimate. Its to reduce tire-kickers and riffraff. I don't blame them. Why should a grown arse man block time out of his day to come to your house and do something for free? $60 isn't covering his costs to make that appointment either.
On the consumer side it can also be beneficial. "free estimates" can be a sign that the contractor has to sell the job in order to cover the cost of the "free" estimate. I'm looking at getting braces and was disappointed when the whole visit and exam to the orthodontist was "free". Now how do I know if I really would benefit from braces or was he just making sure he could pay his expenses of my "free" consultation. I'm currently trying to find an ortho who will charge me for his opinion instead of selling me something I might not need.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:01 am to tadman
The only people less reliable than weathermen are contractors.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:03 am to RolltidePA
quote:
Reading this I'm thankful we managed to find a contractor that actually can keep a schedule and takes on work that is just too big for us. We found him back when the housing market and economy was shite back in 2010-2011. Did all sorts of small stuff for us back then to make ends meet. Once things heated, thankfully still takes our calls. He's not cheap at all and it's tough to get on his calendar to schedule the work, but once you're on, he and his crew show up right at 7:00am and work through 3:30 pretty much non-stop until the project is complete. He usually schedules a follow up a couple weeks out with one of his guys to take care of any issues that we find living with the updates for a couple weeks. Things like paint chips or drawers not closing correctly, uneven stain etc.
We've had quotes on work come in up to 30% less than him on certain jobs. But always just suck it up and pay the extra money because we know he'll show up and the work won't go on for an unnecessary amount of time.
This was pretty much my experience to a T. Did a 250k reno/addition last year. Vetted 10+ contractors. Half never got back to me with a bid, a few of them quoted me barebones/contractor grade stuff that I knew would have a million change orders, and a few had what I would call accurate bids based on what we wanted. I vetted the few accurate bids and the one I went with I knew previously, got high recommendations on from past clients as well as the trade stores, and viewed his homes in parade of homes. His bid was the highest and his contractor fee of 25% was the highest but at the end of the day he was the only one I could trust. If you want to know who to hire go to the floor store, plumbing fixture store, windows and doors store, etc. and ask them who they would pick to redo their house.
Stayed on schedule the entire time, was about $500 off his initial projected bid at the end of the project which for a $250k job is impressive, and showed up everyday as well as his crews and did great work. The extra contractor fee I realized was not only for the things I listed but he also had full project management software that included daily jobsite pictures, schedule, invoices, selections, contracts, etc. They provide warranties on any work/products they did years after its done. Things like that are things people don't think of or consider. We never had an argument and had/have a great relationship throughout. Anytime there was an issue he either took care of it before I even noticed (and told me abou it) or handled it immediately once it was noticed.
I get that it hurts to go with the highest bid/highest contractor fee but if you know you are getting what I described above then it is absolutely worth every single penny.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:31 am to tadman
I needed to swap out the siding on my house. The original stuff on there had a manufacturer defect.
A guy came out, said he could get it done in two weeks and quoted me a ridiculous price. I told him I could pay him in cash and to let me know the denomination of bills he preferred.
6 months later I was still getting the 'ol "I can start in two weeks".
I called the building supplier and told him to deliver the materials. I figured I could start working on it.
The builder immediately called and asked what was going on. I told him don't worry about it, I'll do it. He said he'd knock a thousand off the price. I told him that price was a get it done in 2 weeks price, not the get it done in 8 months price.
I did it and it was done right. It took forever but it was 30k cheaper.
ETA...These guys love having a backlog, and I get it. The perpetual lies about the start date to keep you on the hook are insulting.
A guy came out, said he could get it done in two weeks and quoted me a ridiculous price. I told him I could pay him in cash and to let me know the denomination of bills he preferred.
6 months later I was still getting the 'ol "I can start in two weeks".
I called the building supplier and told him to deliver the materials. I figured I could start working on it.
The builder immediately called and asked what was going on. I told him don't worry about it, I'll do it. He said he'd knock a thousand off the price. I told him that price was a get it done in 2 weeks price, not the get it done in 8 months price.
I did it and it was done right. It took forever but it was 30k cheaper.
ETA...These guys love having a backlog, and I get it. The perpetual lies about the start date to keep you on the hook are insulting.
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 11:35 am
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:39 am to WinnaSez
quote:
This is what I don’t understand about these Reno guys. If you can’t get around to the re-build for three months, hold off on the demo. This happened to us years ago and it was bad. They came in tore everything out then, didn’t show back up for six weeks. The job was supposed to take 6 weeks ended up over 4 months.
we left 2 rooms untouched during the demo and one of them was my office. i still had power and internet, so i worked there every day.
during our renovation, we did all the demo and restudding on the interior, reded our entire exterior. then the GC said "plumbers are 3 weeks out. sorry. they got caught up in another project.
3 weeks come and the plumber walks in and askswhat the SOW is. I said, "i walked this through with y'all and the GC. reno old bathroom, redo kitchen sink, and we're adding a bathroom off the wall behind the sink. they said that's not what we bid. i said "i walked the bid with you. every bit of this was covered and you asked questions about the new bathroom."
they said "we don't have time for a new bathroom and we didn't put that in our bid numbers. we're going to have to walk."
then GC shows up and they have it out.
so then, we have to go back out to bid and it was another 3 weeks before another company could come out. those guys were solid and did a great job, but we sat there with nothing happening for 2 months.
all that is to say, i'm not one to defend the GCs but they asked for the right thing and got screwed by the sub in that situation.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 12:57 pm to tadman
People are paying a premium for average to below average work.
Had a friend in Austin build a huge “luxury” 1.4 million house in a suburb.
In addition to all the delays, the quality of the house is so shitty. The kitchen backsplash looked like it was done by a toddler, and the trim work was somehow even worse.
If that’s the quality of “skilled tradesmen” working on these luxury home builders, I can’t imagine how bad the DR Horton and lower builds are. you can YouTube and learn the majority of these projects and get equal quality work
If you have a reliable good handyman, hold him close.
Had a friend in Austin build a huge “luxury” 1.4 million house in a suburb.
In addition to all the delays, the quality of the house is so shitty. The kitchen backsplash looked like it was done by a toddler, and the trim work was somehow even worse.
If that’s the quality of “skilled tradesmen” working on these luxury home builders, I can’t imagine how bad the DR Horton and lower builds are. you can YouTube and learn the majority of these projects and get equal quality work
If you have a reliable good handyman, hold him close.
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 10/17/23 at 1:18 pm to tadman
There are a few pretty good contractors out there, and then there are the rest that maybe mostly decided they didn't want to work 9-to-5 jobs, and only work when they need some cash.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 1:20 pm to tadman
We put in a whole house generator recently, and it sat in my yard not hooked up for over 2 months. And when it was finally ready for inspection, it failed twice because of the people hooking it up doing it wrong.
In those two months it sat in my yard, we lost power twice. Once for 2.5 days.
But yes. We gutted the kitchen last year for a full redo, and it took an insane amount of time because they would just.. not show up. We didn't live in the house but wasted a couple of full days waiting around for them to show.
In those two months it sat in my yard, we lost power twice. Once for 2.5 days.
But yes. We gutted the kitchen last year for a full redo, and it took an insane amount of time because they would just.. not show up. We didn't live in the house but wasted a couple of full days waiting around for them to show.
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 10/17/23 at 1:39 pm to tadman
Man I feel your pain, started with a bathroom renovation the first week of august…..still going, our GC was a guy we were friendly with, I told the wife that it was a bad idea to use someone we know. Now with all the crap excuses and delays a three week job just keeps going and going, on top of all of this the folks he got to stain the concrete basically quit to take a commercial job that paid more, just walked off. So finally got that done but just on and on. Oh and the demo was done first so basically one bathroom since august
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 10/17/23 at 2:13 pm to 3nOut
quote:
i'm not one to defend a GC, because our relationship with our's was tenuous at best by the end, but their livelihoods are dependent on crackheads and deadbeats.
honestly, the most dependable crew we had were our replacement carpenters which were ran by a guy who exclusively hired ex-cons and taught them carpentry.
The GC doing our kitchen and lower level remodel has said this numerous times...
He has three people working for him. All very good/master level at most things.. electrical, carpentry, plumbing...
Said they cannot find any new employees. Said they can't find anyone who wants to work and nobody can do the work.
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