re: Why is abortion so important to the Left?

quote:

---

it's mostly about avoiding personal accountability and responsibility

---

And what personal accountability and responsibility is being avoided?

quote:

---

And what personal accountability and responsibility is being avoided?

---

Are you this angry at God that you need to be so obtuse? And on that note, as perpetually butthurt as you are, do you get Boudreaux's by the case on subscription?

quote:

---

It empowers women. Women love power. Men bend the knee for women.

---

quote:

---

So the challenge is how do you build a base of reliable voters who tend toward their own group self destruction as a result of selfish decision making?

---

quote:

---

Are you this angry at God that you need to be so obtuse? And on that note, as perpetually butthurt as you are, do you get Boudreaux's by the case on subscription?

---

Instead of being a pussy, you could've just answered the question so I could smack your small mind around a bit.

quote:

---

Simple. Where the Scriptures speak clearly, we stand with the Scriptures. Where the Scriptures are silent or unclear, we leave room for men of good will to draw the inferences they will draw, just as you have drawn throughout this thread.

---

While I agree with you in principle, the Scriptures aren't silent on this issue, just like they aren't silent on the Trinity. Not using the word "abortion" while discussing everything associated with issue of abortion is not silence.

Also, you still haven't provided your interpretation of those passages I cited. You claim the Scriptures are silent. I provided several Scriptures that lead to a necessary inference that abortion is murder, and you simply reply that the Scriptures are silent or that the issue isn't mentioned explicitly (as if that matters when it's consistently taught). They aren't silent. What is your specific response to those passages I provided, if you don't think they say anything about the life or value of the unborn children?

quote:

---

As I've said several times already, I'm pro-life and I think that is the correct POV for a believer.

---

Why? What's your support for your view on this? I've provided several reasons and passages from the Scriptures to support the notion that abortion is murder as God defines it.

quote:

---

But I'm not going to accuse a devout Christian of "ignoring God's Word" on a topic where God's Word does not comment explicitly. I'm willing to say to him, as I have said to him on multiple occasions, we'll just have to disagree

---

There is no scriptural or historical (church history) support for the allowance for abortion under God's moral law. If a professing Christian believes that the killing of children in the womb is a good thing or even a neutral thing, they are the ones who need to support their position. A Christian is not just someone who goes to a "Christian" church, but someone who puts their trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation from sin due to a recognition that sin offends God and warrants eternal death. Such a Christian should be seeking to glorify God by mortifying sin in their bodies and seeking to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ in obedience to His commands. This means that Christians should be seeking to love what God loves and hate what God hates. We know that God hates sin. Therefore, Christians should hate sin, as well.

quote:

---

That's an easy one for me. I believe that life begins at conception. The Bible doesn't say that, nor have all Christians always believed it. But today IMO it's the only conclusion one can draw from science.

And because I believe that life is a gift from God and that we are made in His image, once life begins I believe it to be a sin to arbitrarily end it.

---

Is your conclusion based on Scripture or science or both? What is your final authority? Is it God, or man?

So far you have made a reference to "science" as a source for believing that life begins at conception, but you haven't supported that claim from Scripture. Do you look to the Scriptures to be the only infallible rule for faith and life of a Christian, or do you look to science? If science said that life doesn't begin until a form of sapience was developed (let's say after a few months after birth), would you want Christians to change their view of when life begins to align with science?

The Bible does teach that life begins at conception. There is too much evidence to deny it. Here are some evidences:

1. There are many, many direct references to "she conceived and bore a son/child" (including conception as part of the birth in terms of importance)
2. Conception was understood as the start of life and is used as an analogy for sin, which begins at conception (Psalm 7:14; James 1:15)
3. Job wished that he wasn't born due to the suffering he was experiencing, but he actually spends more time wishing he wasn't conceived, because he realized that conception was the beginning of his life (Job 3)
4. David acknowledges his own sinfulness from birth, and even from conception (Psalm 51:2-5)
5. You have a reference to the Spirit coming to the bones of a child in its mother's womb in Ecclesiastes 11:5, which is said in the context of God creating all things
6. Joseph was told that the conception of Jesus was from the Spirit (a miraculous work of God), and in no way indicates that Jesus wasn't alive or valued until He was born (Matt. 1)
7. As was mentioned previously, both Jesus and John the Baptist were conceived miraculously (the miracle being in the conception, not just in the birth), and that John responded in the womb to being in proximity to Jesus, who was in the womb of Mary (Luke 1:39-44)
8. You've got the Nazarite vow or status where a Nazarite was considered an example of holiness to the people of Israel, and they were not supposed to eat anything unclean or drink any wine or strong drink from the beginning of the vow, yet both Samson and John the Baptist were under this obligation from birth, and both of their mothers were told by Angels that the mothers were not to drink any wine or strong drink while pregnant (from conception until birth) because that would affect the status of their child as a Nazarite (Judges 13; Luke 1)
9. Jeremiah was known (it means an intimate relationship, not just factual knowledge) to God before he was conceived, but he was also consecrated by God in his mother's womb to be a prophet, just like Samson and John the Baptist were consecrated to their roles in the womb (Jeremiah 1:5)
10. You've got Sarah (Abraham's wife) who received power by God to conceive a child, and conception was the miracle due to her old age (Hebrews 11:11)
11. Lastly (for this list), you have David having an affair with Bathsheba and she conceived a child. David was willing to have the father killed by sending him to the front lines in battle (2 Samuel 11), but he never seemed to even give a thought to covering up his sin by an abortion, which would have been the most discreet solution that didn't end a person's life (if they actually believed a child in the womb wasn't a person), given that the first recorded abortion occurred hundreds of years before David

There's more I could say in terms of what the Bible says about this, but needless to say, the Bible isn't silent on this issue.

quote:

---

The church didn't fully agree on the doctrine of the trinity until AD 681, and even they weren't fully in agreement. One side just outvoted the other

---

Do you believe the Bible doesn't teach the Trinity? That Jesus is God but not the Father? That the Spirit is God but not the Father nor the Son?

We can debate the doctrine of the Trinity at another time, but I think you're missing the point: the Trinity is a doctrine that is taught from the Scriptures even though "Trinity" is not a word that exists within the Scriptures. It's a concept or doctrine that describes what the Scriptures teach. Likewise, "abortion" is not a word used in the Scriptures, but the act is condemned through good and necessary consequence based on what the Scriptures teach on the value of life, the command against murder, and the beginning of life at conception.

They don’t care about any of the issues, it’s all about division.

quote:

---

And here it is. Interpretation. Inconsistency.

Objective morality, they claim.

---

The objectivity comes from God, not from man. It's God's perfect Word that is objective, not our fallible understanding of it. It's why we should be searching the Scriptures daily and understanding it in light of its own context rather than seeking to impose our own beliefs upon the text. The problem lies with us, not God or His Word.

quote:

---

The objectivity comes from God, not from man.

---

Every word of what you believe was written by men.

Even if the claims were true, an assertion that "I'm infallible" doesn't make it so.

Life is determined by a heartbeat, but not for a child in the womb?
Someone killing a pregnant woman is charged with double homicide, but not for a pregnant woman killing her child in the womb?
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence. The phrase gives three examples of the unalienable rights which the Declaration says have been given to all humans by their Creator, and which governments are created to protect.

Honestly, half of the left is rich that hate poor and the other half are poor that hate rich but are easily manipulated/stupid. They want to find shite to be mad and miserable about because they need drama in their lives.

Most the middle of the road people are right and just want to be left alone. They go to work and go home to enjoy themselves and just want to be happy.