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re: Stranger Things Season 4 official discussion thread. (Spoilers)
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:56 am to Sl0thstronautEsq
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:56 am to Sl0thstronautEsq
quote:
If the Mind Flayer is the shape of a spider and uses psychic/telekinetic powers, wouldn't you say it's just as likely that the Mind Flayer has been controlling Vecna all along? I think it's more likely that Vecna took a liking to spiders because of the Mind Flayer and the Mind Flayer basically recruited Vecna from a young age due to the latter's psychic/telekinetic powers.
This theory can hold water but feels unlikely based on what we’ve been presented in the narrative this season. I think it’s fair to say a little retconning has taken place in the grand narrative of the series (albeit retconning done pretty well) which has shifted the importance toward Vecna and away from the mystery of the mind flayer.
Still much to be explained but the emphasis placed on Vecna’s backstory within the narrative (compared to little of any backstory for the mind flayer, other than what Dustin has supposed based on familiar D&D lore) and his direct relation to El and Hawkins suggests he is the true big bad of the series.
By comparison, we saw the Hellraiser lore (an 80s series from which I think it’s fair to say some inspiration has been drawn) expanded in sequels wherein Leviathan more or less ruled the hell dimension and the cenobites acted as sort of untethered minions. Difference, though, is it was revealed that the cenobites were all once human with no apparent connection to the series protagonists. They just opened the box, we’re tortured and co-opted into the dimension, and now doggedly pursued to do the same to others. Not a whole lot of personal motivation as given in this season of Stranger Things.
quote:
Also, I think the Mind Flayer being the ultimate antagonist makes sense because next season you can have 01, 008, and 011 unite to destroy it and that ties to the theory of 1 + 8 + 11 adding up to a perfect roll of 20 in DND.
I would find some kind of redemption arc for 01 to be very convoluted at this point. Vecna himself delivered his story and motivation, signaling he is bought in completely to that vision of the world. Too, he didn’t just murder innocent teenagers in gruesome fashion but his mom and sister as well
redeeming villains in a story requires a certain level of asking the audience to suspend disbelief and Vecna feels pretty far gone from that. You could try to make a narrative case for next season explaining how he was corrupted early on by a dark force like the mind flayer but I think it would stand as pretty weak compared to other creative directions.
1
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:06 am to VoxDawg
quote:
Antonov aka "Enzo" is played by Tom Wlaschiha, the actor who's Jaqen H'gar in GoT.
Thank you!! I was wondering why he looked so familiar.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:14 am to HuskyPanda
quote:
Thank you!! I was wondering why he looked so familiar.
Yeah, Antonov is a great character. I hope he doesn't get sacrificed in another round with the Russkie Demogorgon.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:24 am to Byrdybyrd05
quote:
Potential spoiler alert!
Is Will going to come out of the closet this season?
Does he even need to?
They've been planting those seeds since S1
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:28 am to S
quote:
That was a good last episode. Kinda glad they took a break from Mike and co.
Yeah the group in CA was far and away the least interesting for me.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:53 am to Funky Tide 8
quote:CDAN is very well known and has, to my knowledge, never been wrong.
not saying that it isn't true, as I have no idea, but your source doesn't seem all that credible.
Just watched the first 2 episodes. So far, it's WAY better than last season. Taking time off seems to have done them a lot of good, unlike some shows I can name. Okay, one show.
Nancy is really hard to look at. I thought she was anorexic, and maybe she is, but the coke thing makes sense. Her makeup is caked-on, obviously covering up little toxicity zits all over her face. They also put her in a lot of clothes, even though it looks like it's 95 degrees in every scene, so the waif-ness must be totally out of control. She's exactly the kind of 'hey remember that chick' who dies of an OD. Good luck, Nancy.
MBB was photo'd in a limo on her 18th b-day and you could see lines of coke on the armrest of her limo seat, so it looks like she takes after her namesake, and it seems as though coke use is pervasive among the cast. Also, she hung out with some pretty creepy dudes while she was very underage, so the grooming thing makes sense too.
The show is pretty good so far. The lesbian chick clearly exists only to be a lesbian. It's 95% of her dialogue, but the rest of the show makes up for it and other annoyances, unlike last season.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 6/1/22 at 11:55 am to blueboy
quote:
The lesbian chick clearly exists only to be a lesbian. It's 95% of her dialogue
LOL wut?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:30 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:read better, tool. then go back to beating yourself up with your own threads.
Just watched the first 2 episodes.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:46 pm to MelGibsonPatriotGif
Wasn’t really excited about this season but it is WAY better than Season 3 was. Eddie is an awesome addition. I knew immediately when I saw him that we were in for some “satanic panic”.
Also, is Robert Englund just the voice of Vecna or is he the actual person in the show?
Also, is Robert Englund just the voice of Vecna or is he the actual person in the show?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 12:58 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Also, is Robert Englund just the voice of Vecna or is he the actual person in the show?
Neither. He plays old Victor Creel with his mutilated eyes.
Jamie Campbell Bower voices Vecna.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:13 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:
I think it’s fair to say a little retconning has taken place in the grand narrative of the series (albeit retconning done pretty well) which has shifted the importance toward Vecna and away from the mystery of the mind flayer.
So I think this is my biggest issue with the theory that Vecna is the main antagonist, rather than the Mind Flayer. It seems like S4 Part 2 is setting up to be a big showdown with Vecna, so what are they going to do in S5?
If they don't defeat Vecna in the next 2 episodes, is all of S5 going to be a fight against Vecna? I don't think they can drag it out that long. If they do defeat Vecna, it opens up the possibility of a redemption arc in S5 and a final battle with the Mind Flayer.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:30 pm to Sl0thstronautEsq
I thought this was the final season
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:38 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
S5 confirmed to be the last.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:51 pm to rcl4
ohhhhh sweet!
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:58 pm to Sl0thstronautEsq
My guess is Vecna wins in Vol 2, we lose at least 2 main characters (Hopper and Steve, perhaps?), and S5 sees Vecna invade Hawkins with a fight to destroy him before he takes the rest of the world. Allows for 08 and the other psychic kids to be worked into the story (would also offer an avenue for Eddie to get some public acquittal, too)
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:01 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Just finished and it was great.
Few questions:
1. What do you think Will painted? They made sure to show him grab it when he was packing. It obviously has some significance
Will's painting is definitely going to be something important, no idea what it is, but something significant.
Also, reading through these 10 pages, not nearly as much hate for Argyle as I would have expected. My least favorite character by a large margin, ready for him to get Vecna'd.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:02 pm to OllaTiger
I liked him tbh
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:20 pm to OllaTiger
quote:
Also, reading through these 10 pages, not nearly as much hate for Argyle as I would have expected. My least favorite character by a large margin, ready for him to get Vecna'd.
I thought that he was pretty hilarious most of the time. You must just hate dumb stoner characters.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:51 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
More I look at it, the more I become convinced Vecna created the mind flayer, not the other way around. Biggest tip off is that the mind flayer in seasons 2 and 3 took the shape of a spider and had a psychic/telekinetic hold. My assumption is that the demagorgons, demabats, etc all populated the upside down and Vecna tapped into the hive mind. It’s all been about getting revenge on 11, Hawkins, and humanity ever since.
I think you might be right. Dustin has been pretty spot on with his Upside Down information so it would be a nice twist if he was wrong and that the Mind Flayer is actually the five star general and not Vecna
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:15 pm to OllaTiger
quote:
Also, reading through these 10 pages, not nearly as much hate for Argyle as I would have expected. My least favorite character by a large margin, ready for him to get Vecna'd
Argyle is hilarious Robin is the one that needs to go.
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