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Question for the Anti-O crowd
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:00 am
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:00 am
Beating teams that LSU should beat and having the team in position to win games against elite competition is what we are hiring a coach to do. O is taking the talent on our football team and winning games with it. The problem for the not O crowd is that every other candidate is not getting a dress rehearsal. You can speculate that someone else would do better than he has this year but it is honestly hard to imagine it. So anyone else you pick will be a roll of the dice versus more of a known quantity. Thus, my question for the anti-O crowd is assuming O wins out, if you were Alleva and O came into his interview saying that he has secured Aranda to stay on and has an elite OC lined up to join his staff ala Kiffen/Riley/Kingsbury/Martin do you roll with that or take a chance on the field?
6
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:02 am to glaucon
Do you want Jimbo Fisher or Ed Orgeron?
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:04 am to glaucon
quote:
Thus, my question for the anti-O crowd is assuming O wins out, if you were Alleva and O came into his interview saying that he has secured Aranda to stay on and has an elite OC lined up to join his staff ala Kiffen/Riley/Kingsbury/Martin do you roll with that or take a chance on the field?
No. O has already proven he doesn't have the skills to manage a program full time. There are literally a dozen or so attainable coaches out there who HAVE proven they have those skills that should get a chance over O.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:07 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
O has already proven he doesn't have the skills to manage a program full time
His failure was that he couldn't win football games while he was a head coach. As he is now winning football games as a head coach, this statement is no longer definitive.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:10 am to glaucon
quote:
, if you were Alleva and O came into his interview saying that he has secured Aranda to stay on and has an elite OC lined up to join his staff ala Kiffen/Riley/Kingsbury/Martin do you roll with that or take a chance on the field?
why don't I just take the better coach with an agreement to keep Aranda on staff? He's the only reason we were "in position" to beat Bama.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:11 am to glaucon
quote:
His failure was that he couldn't win football games while he was a head coach. As he is now winning football games as a head coach, this statement is no longer definitive.
This is the great fallacy of the pro-O crowd
Building and managing a program over the course of a half decade or a decade requires a very different skill set that taking over an underachieving team that has already been assembled & gone through spring and fall camp and injecting some enthusiasm + making a few common sense adjustments for 6-8 weeks.
O is a great interim coach, nothing more.
This post was edited on 11/15/16 at 9:13 am
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:12 am to glaucon
Why do so many of the O pumpers have such a hard time answering one simple question. O or Jimbo?
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:13 am to abellsujr
quote:
Do you want Jimbo Fisher or Ed Orgeron?
I want O if he wins out, retains Aranda, and an elite OC lined up. If it is a choice just between Fisher and O, I would choose Fisher but it is not simply a binary choice.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:13 am to abellsujr
quote:
O or Jimbo?
Some would actually say O which is the scariest part of all.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:14 am to glaucon
There is no "securing Aranda". Aranda has HC aspirations and will be gone.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:14 am to glaucon
quote:Then relax. It sounds like it will be one or the other.
I would choose Fisher
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:21 am to bass
quote:
There is no "securing Aranda". Aranda has HC aspirations and will be gone.
This X 1000
You don't negotiate a no buyout clause like he did in his contract if you aren't ready to be a head coach as soon as is possible. He will almost certainly be gone the first time he gets offered a top notch power five head coaching position.
I don't like the obvious scenario of Orgeron as head coach, Aranda gone to coach somewhere like Auburn, A&M, Florida, or Arkansas and Guice and LF gone to the NFL.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:22 am to molsusports
quote:
I don't like the obvious scenario of Orgeron as head coach, Aranda gone to coach somewhere like Auburn, A&M, Florida, or Arkansas and Guice and LF gone to the NFL.
That's where this train is heading but the short term and emotional thinking that goes on around here can't see it. Scary times for LSU.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:27 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Building and managing a program over the course of a half decade or a decade requires a very different skill set that taking over an underachieving team that has already been assembled & gone through spring and fall camp and injecting some enthusiasm + making a few common sense adjustments for 6-8 weeks.
If it was so easy, we would expect to see interim coaches having more success than they have historically. They generally have been complete and utter failures. In addition, one of the few successes (who had significantly less success than O has at this point, Dabo Swinney, turned out alright.
Fundamentally, I think we differ on his capacity to recruit. I don't have doubts that the man can maintain LSU's talent level. He is a elite recruiter. Even at Ole Miss, that was the one thing that he didn't fail at as a head coach. As for the other skills, his tenures as interim point toward significant improvement in terms of his management of his staff, the media, and boosters of the program.
I get why folks have reservations about O based on his tenure at Ole Miss but there is an argument to be made for him that has nothing to do with his accent.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:29 am to Draconian Sanctions
I hope O gets it just to watch the melt on this board
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:30 am to glaucon
quote:
If it was so easy, we would expect to see interim coaches having more success than they have historically.
How many interim coaches get 6+ games though? Most of the time it's just 1 or 2 and they are simply playing out the string.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:33 am to abellsujr
quote:
Then relax. It sounds like it will be one or the other.
I have some reservations about how much of a sure thing the Fisher thing is. My biggest fear is they don't retain O and they can't secure their top choices leaving us with the equivalent of a Steve Sarkisian hire. Right now all the back channel information we are getting is just noise that signifies nothing.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:34 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
No. O has already proven he doesn't have the skills to manage a program full time.
This is part of it but what really does it for me is that we don't really know that he's improved. I mean we can tell he's better than he was 10 years ago, but we don't know if it sustains because he's never done it anywhere else.
If he had a stop at a mid-major after that mess w/ Ole Miss it'd be different imo.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:36 am to glaucon
quote:
If it was so easy, we would expect to see interim coaches having more success than they have historically. They generally have been complete and utter failures.
Where does this opinion come from? In general my impression is they tend to do about the same as the guy who was fired mid-season.
For example: Florida in 2004 fires Zook after the loss to Mississippi State.
9/11/2004 vs. Eastern Michigan (4-7) W 49 10
9/18/2004 @ *Tennessee (10-3) L 28 30
9/25/2004 vs. *Kentucky (2-9) W 20 3
10/2/2004 vs. *Arkansas (5-6) W 45 30
10/9/2004 vs. *Louisiana State (9-3) L 21 24
10/16/2004 vs. Middle Tennessee State (5-6) W 52 16
10/23/2004 @ *Mississippi State (3-8) L 31 38
Zook fired after MSU game: Florida is 4-3 midseason
10/30/2004 vs. *Georgia (10-2) L 24 31 @ Jacksonville, FL
11/6/2004 @ *Vanderbilt (2-9) W 34 17
11/13/2004 vs. *South Carolina (6-5) W 48 14
11/20/2004 @ Florida State (9-3) W 20 13
12/31/2004 vs. Miami (Florida) (9-3) L 10 27 @ Atlanta, GA Peach Bowl
Florida goes 3-2 the rest of the season to finish with a final record of 7-5
Posted on 11/15/16 at 9:37 am to HMTVBrian2
quote:
If he had a stop at a mid-major after that mess w/ Ole Miss it'd be different imo.
for sure, if he had gone to say Syracuse 4 years ago and steadily improved them it would be different.
I believe he will be better than he was at Ole Miss, but i dont believe he would be a NC caliber coach. We'd be 7-5 or 8-4 most years once Aranda + Les' guys were gone.
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