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What are your thoughts on the feminization of fantasy?
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:02 am
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:02 am
In before "you're a misogynist that hates strong women". Not at all. But it seems lately that almost all lead characters in fantasy, whether written by a male or female, are women. I'm reading Brian McClellan God's of Blood and Powder series, the first book Sins of Empire and it seems the three most powerful characters are female. General Vlora Flint leads the main mercenary force. The Lady Chancellor rules Fastrasta, and Mama Palo leads the rebellion. This seems to be the growing trend, to me at least. And more and more female authors are writing fantasy novels mostly romance, YA, dystopia themed fantasy. All of that is well and good. I'm not necessarily complaining, there's room for a wide variety of fantasy I'm just wondering where have the Logan Ninefingers gone? Is it just my imagination?
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Posted on 6/27/23 at 12:11 pm to Adajax
quote:
reading Brian McClellan God's of Blood and Powder series, the first book Sins of Empire and it seems the three most powerful characters are female
This is some majorly wrong info, I'm assuming you haven't finished the first book, because two of the most badass characters, including the best character in the series are male. I mean asking where the Logen Ninefingers have gone while reading a book series that has Ben Styke in it is just crazy talk.
The chancellor and Mama Paolo aren't even main characters in the series, you are over here complaining about secondary characters.
Vlora is certainly one of the main characters. But of the main characters in that series, three are male and 2 are female. The most powerful character in the series is female, but two out of the three male main characters are equally as powerful as Vlora if not moreso.
Not sure how you are reading all this fantasy without male main characters, as most the male written fantasy I read still has mostly male protagonists. There is definitely a tendency to have balanced leads between male and females, which is only good business sense. And it's not like that's something new, it's been the case from Robert Jordan and David Eddings and before. The vast majority of the fantasy I've read the past 4-5 years is male centric, and the ones that aren't are like 70-30 male type books.
This post was edited on 6/27/23 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 6/27/23 at 12:23 pm to Adajax
Conservatives have largely abandoned culture in pursuit of business, money, profits.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 12:59 pm to Adajax
Yes, I'm only about 125 pages into this particular trilogy. I appreciate your input..
This post was edited on 6/27/23 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 6/27/23 at 1:02 pm to Adajax
Hah, I'm good. Your take was just really weird to me given the series you are reading. Ben Styke is one of the best male characters I've read in fantasy in the past 10 years.
On a side note, if you need some suggestions for some good male led fantasy I can help you out.
On a side note, if you need some suggestions for some good male led fantasy I can help you out.
This post was edited on 6/27/23 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 6/27/23 at 2:29 pm to auyushu
I'm ok with female leads, I was just wondering if I was imagining a trend but as you pointed out it's nothing new. I realize there have always been strong female characters in balance to male characters (Cersei and Jamie, Danaerys and John Snow, Arlen and Leesha, Rikke and Leo dan Brock, etc) but it seems more and more female characters dominate feckless, dumber, and/or less capable male figures. Maybe I'm projecting a Hollywood-like bias to fantasy novels that doesn't exist.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 2:58 pm to Adajax
I think you are projecting a bit on that. It's definitely happening in movies/Hollywood, but at least in the fantasy I read I haven't noticed that trend.
I mean, Leo is definitely a prideful idiot in that trilogy, but that's kind of his fatal flaw. There are plenty of very bright and strong males in that trilogy besides him. And I think Abercrombie does a good job of giving the female characters good flaws as well. Savine is equally as flawed as Leo, just in different ways. Rikke is definitely probably the most "good guy" oriented of that trilogy, but even she has a strong arc and has to earn her heroics, and make some really harsh moves that hurt her heart to survive.
Most of the fantasy I've read lately that has female leads or coleads have females that have strong arcs and have to go through growth and challenges. You don't really see the Rey type of Mary Sue situations that you get in Hollywood. At least not in the fantasy I've read, and I read a ton of fantasy. JMO on that.
I mean, Leo is definitely a prideful idiot in that trilogy, but that's kind of his fatal flaw. There are plenty of very bright and strong males in that trilogy besides him. And I think Abercrombie does a good job of giving the female characters good flaws as well. Savine is equally as flawed as Leo, just in different ways. Rikke is definitely probably the most "good guy" oriented of that trilogy, but even she has a strong arc and has to earn her heroics, and make some really harsh moves that hurt her heart to survive.
Most of the fantasy I've read lately that has female leads or coleads have females that have strong arcs and have to go through growth and challenges. You don't really see the Rey type of Mary Sue situations that you get in Hollywood. At least not in the fantasy I've read, and I read a ton of fantasy. JMO on that.
This post was edited on 6/27/23 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 6/27/23 at 8:00 pm to Adajax
My guess is that women likely read far more than men and want a lead character they can identify with. Publishers, wanting money, act accordingly.
Posted on 6/27/23 at 9:04 pm to Adajax
I’ve read that series and I honestly didn’t take anything remotely like that away from it. It is very far from what you are saying.
That being said, yes, that is a trend in fantasy big time. Ultra liberal types gravitate to fantasy so it is what it is.
LGBT representation is going crazy too.
They are portraying Middle Ages societies and half the characters are gay and everyone is cool about it. It’s pretty odd.
I just read a fantasy series and I would say 75% of the primary characters turned out to be gay. I was wondering how society survived.
That being said, yes, that is a trend in fantasy big time. Ultra liberal types gravitate to fantasy so it is what it is.
LGBT representation is going crazy too.
They are portraying Middle Ages societies and half the characters are gay and everyone is cool about it. It’s pretty odd.
I just read a fantasy series and I would say 75% of the primary characters turned out to be gay. I was wondering how society survived.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 2:53 pm to Adajax
It's very noticeable, just considering how abrupt the change was. That genre was heavily young male for years and now it seems the majority of new authors are female and most protagonists, even in male authored novels, are female. I assume it's a combination of how many girls Harry Potter introduced to fantasy coupled with the corporate ESG push.
Posted on 6/29/23 at 10:05 pm to Adajax
quote:
it seems lately that almost all lead characters in fantasy, whether written by a male or female, are women
You seem easily triggered,
quote:
This seems to be the growing trend, to me at least.
and incredibly weak.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 7:27 am to Green Chili Tiger
Oh frick off with your canned responses
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:44 am to Adajax
It’s just the cycle or era that we are in right now. History is nothing but over corrections.
Thankfully for you, you can easily access fantasy books written in previous decades!
Thankfully for you, you can easily access fantasy books written in previous decades!
Posted on 7/2/23 at 11:00 am to Adajax
It is leads to the potential tits in the movies that will come from these movies, I'll allow it.
Posted on 7/2/23 at 5:40 pm to Adajax
Nothing new. I haven't really read much fantasy in a long time. But the Dragonriders of Pern series was very popular and early in the fantasy genre (and kinda boring from what I remember of it). Ursula Le Guin was very good at it and one of the best scifi/fantasy writers ever. CJ Cherryh was good at it too. I'm guessing there are a lot of options out there, just pick and choose from what interests you.
Posted on 7/3/23 at 11:33 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
I just read a fantasy series and I would say 75% of the primary characters turned out to be gay. I was wondering how society survived.
Title? Just so I don't end up wasting my time
Female led fantasy novels don't bother me (can't even think of that many though). With Best Served Cold and The Shattered Sea trilogy the biggest badasses in them are women. But I don't really care to read one where pretty much everybody is gay.
Posted on 7/7/23 at 2:24 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Title? Just so I don't end up wasting my time
would also like to know lol
I think it's just the byproduct of that women make up the dominant demographic in books, so you see a lot more female protagonists. I just take that many of those books aren't made for me and that is just fine with me.
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:10 pm to Coach Finstock
quote:
Conservatives have largely abandoned culture in pursuit of business, money, profits
Reading preferences are affected by personality and sex differences do exist.
Men are more likely to read nonfiction and women fiction. Science fiction is more commonly read by male readers. I'm not sure about fantasy but suspect that depends on the subgenre.
Creative personality types with more openness are proportionately more likely to be female and more likely to be liberal. More organized people lower in agreeability are more likely to be male and more likely to be conservative.
And all of these things are oversimplifications and generalizations. Not rules or absolute truths.
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:19 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Title? Just so I don't end up wasting my time
Django Wexler's Burningblade and Silvereye series.
Many many many of the characters turned out to be Lesbian or Gay. It was super odd to me
Posted on 7/10/23 at 3:52 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Many many many of the characters turned out to be Lesbian or Gay. It was super odd to me
Kinda funny, I just read books 2 and 3 of that series after I had responded earlier in this thread. Django definitely has a tendency to have more lesbian/gay characters for sure, though in his case he always has, it's not something new. All three series I've read by him have had at least one lesbian main character. Though I've found all three series to be pretty solid.
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