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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 4/11/13 at 11:52 am to manwich
Posted on 4/11/13 at 11:52 am to manwich
So a legitimized male bastard must at least rank higher than a true born daughter
Yea that has to be right because Robb's main reason for legitimizing Jon was to keep the lannisters from claiming Winterfell via Tyrion and Sansa's marriage
Yea that has to be right because Robb's main reason for legitimizing Jon was to keep the lannisters from claiming Winterfell via Tyrion and Sansa's marriage
0
Posted on 4/11/13 at 11:55 am to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
Wouldn't Jon need to be out of the Night's Watch to have a claim to anything?
Stannis was ready to legitimized him as well after Robb's death. So basically, the King does what he wants.
Which brings me to the next question. How legitimate would Robb legitimizing Jon even be at this point now that he's (Robb) dead? Especially with the North in shambles at the moment. No one on the Iron Throne is going to recognize it. And he already turned Stannis down for it.
This post was edited on 4/11/13 at 11:56 am
Posted on 4/11/13 at 11:57 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:legitimate to the Northern lords. that's it.
How legitimate would Robb legitimizing Jon even be at this point now that he's (Robb) dead?
Posted on 4/11/13 at 11:58 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Which brings me to the next question. How legitimate would Robb legitimizing Jon even be at this point now that he's dead?
The North remembers. I think whoever ends up on the Iron Throne wants a Stark in Winterfell because all of the people of the North would accept a Stark as legitimate and bring peace to that region. Even the Lannisters wanted a Stark in Winterfell -- it brings order and peace to the furthest reaches of the empire.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:01 pm to Baloo
quote:yeah, the Starks would never start a rebellion against the Lannisters
Even the Lannisters wanted a Stark in Winterfell -- it brings order and peace to the furthest reaches of the empire.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:01 pm to Baloo
The thing i want to know about is the Kindly man does he have some type of hidden background. I would like to no more about the faceless men in general
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:02 pm to jamsmiley
quote:it's Ned
the Kindly man does he have some type of hidden background
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:03 pm to Baloo
quote:
The North remembers
How much of the North is going to be left to remember though?
quote:
Even the Lannisters wanted a Stark in Winterfell -- it brings order and peace to the furthest reaches of the empire.
Technically the Lannisters were part of orchestrating the Red Wedding and placed the Boltons in Winterfell. So they didn't care too much for it.
This post was edited on 4/11/13 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:06 pm to manwich
quote:
legitimate to the Northern lords. that's it.
If Jon had the swords backing him up, he would be legitimate
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:11 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
How much of the North is going to be left to remember though?
Literally every person in the North views the Starks as the rightful lords of the North, as they have been for centuries. That is why everyone jockeying for the North tries to somehow show some connection to the Starks' claim. Because that is the only claim anyone recognizes.
quote:
Technically the Lannisters were part of orchestrating the Red Wedding and placed the Boltons in Winterfell.
Well, they don't recognize a "King of the North" and they certainly don't want the Starks to take one step below the Neck. They want the Starks up North, keeping order, but subservient to the Iron Throne, as they had been for century upon century.
Yes, they put the Boltons in Winterfell... by marrying them to the Starks (ok, its a sham wedding, but the Stark claim is still considered valid, and they would've used a real Stark girl had they had one). The Lannisters first plan is to ship off the brother that doesn't matter up there by marriage to Sansa. Tywin clearly doesn't view Tyrion as a true Lannister, but he's willing to use him to prop up Stark rule in the North, friendly to the Lannisters.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:14 pm to Baloo
quote:
The North remembers. I think whoever ends up on the Iron Throne wants a Stark in Winterfell because all of the people of the North would accept a Stark as legitimate and bring peace to that region. Even the Lannisters wanted a Stark in Winterfell -- it brings order and peace to the furthest reaches of the empire.
I think the Starks were Varys's biggest threat to his plans to restore a Targareyn to the throne and probably why he never helped them on anything and aided in their demise.
The Starks were just too damn good to rule Westeros.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:17 pm to Baloo
So lets say somehow the fake arya and Bolton become the rulers of winterfell. You would have a whole line of fake starks
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:28 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:Remember, the Night's Watch take oaths that hold them until death.
Wouldn't Jon need to be out of the Night's Watch to have a claim to anything?
Jon just died. If Melisandre revives him, he is no longer held to his oath.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:31 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
What did varys do to aid in their demise? Anything that happened to the Starks was usually because they did something stupid.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:34 pm to F machine
quote:
What did varys do to aid in their demise? Anything that happened to the Starks was usually because they did something stupid.
Parts in the book allude to Varys knowing about the red wedding ahead of time and possibly masterminding it.
He also urged Ned to kneel to King Joffery to prevent the Starks from overthrowing him.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:35 pm to F machine
Just watched that Lannister Honeypot video. It was interesting, but really circumstantial, mostly with Talisa's supposed unfamiliarity with Westerosi customs. I mean, how hard is it for a noble women from Volantis to learn the title for nobles in Westeros? And the Faith originated in Essos, so it wouldn't surprise me if she was familiar with it; plus she could have, you know, practiced her marriage vows.
I think this just points to the only change I don't really like from the books. Book Robb is more sympathetic because he didn't willfully violate his oath; he's more tragic. But maybe making Talisa a catalyst in the RW will make it even more shocking for Illiterati who might feel that Robb had it coming.
Edit: And if she does betray Robb, does this mean the showrunners confirmed with Martin that Jeyne Westerling isn't going to play a significant role in the future?
I think this just points to the only change I don't really like from the books. Book Robb is more sympathetic because he didn't willfully violate his oath; he's more tragic. But maybe making Talisa a catalyst in the RW will make it even more shocking for Illiterati who might feel that Robb had it coming.
Edit: And if she does betray Robb, does this mean the showrunners confirmed with Martin that Jeyne Westerling isn't going to play a significant role in the future?
This post was edited on 4/11/13 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:35 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
Hugo
DOH!
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:36 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:This implies that Varys wanted Ned to live. Everyone expected Ned to survive. Joffrey's actions weren't expected. I don't see how Varys had a hand in Ned's death.
He also urged Ned to kneel to King Joffery to prevent the Starks from overthrowing him.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:38 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
I thought tywin masterminded the red wedding. Also, Ned kneeling was the best decision. In hindsight its bad, but no one thought Joffrey would kill Ned.
Posted on 4/11/13 at 12:39 pm to F machine
quote:I'm pretty sure this is correct. He promised the Frey's something, but I can't remember.
I thought tywin masterminded the red wedding.
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