re: Commie Pope Francis Tells 60 Minutes that Conservativism Is “A Suicidal Attitude”

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I could see how these teachings could influence Catholic thought to the point the Pope is spouting Marxist ideas.

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We should also be reminded that, right after Jesus's time on Earth, the Apostles themselves adopted a sort of economic collective model for the Early Church. This model shares some close similarity to socialism.

Because the Church started out from the beginning with some "socialist tendencies", it should be no surprise that a Catholic Priest from Argentina might grow up and grow old with some political and economic theories that are Leftist and far off of the solid mark that we in the USA would call "Conservative Political and Economic Policy."

Conservative Americans and Pope Francis have absolutely nothing in common when it comes to economic and government policy, because we disagree on the issue of Governmental Power over Private Life.

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Conservative Americans and Pope Francis have absolutely nothing in common when it comes to economic and government policy, because we disagree on the issue of Governmental Power over Private Life.

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Only issue I would bring up with your statement is that once again, this is an example of Francis being entirely vague in his proposed remedies for the problems he describes.

Take inequality or greed, he has spoken extensively about it but has stopped short of calling for government intervention and government redistribution. This leads each side to infer what they want (Pope is a socialist!).

Additionally, we on the board look at this purely through an American lense. Ask yourself if his comments on the abuse of workers and nature have any truth in the developing world.

Is it OK for large corporations to poison the earth and workers at the bottom of a supply chain so that we in the developed world can chase green energy? Is it OK for actual slave labor in places like China to be the engine that supports a throw away culture of consumerism and materialism?

Where are the kudos when he calls out the willingness of the first world to poison the third world with subsidized abortion, Contraception, and gender ideology?

Bottom line, the Pope is vague and the Pope speaks to many audiences at one time.

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Where are the kudos when he calls out the willingness of the first world to poison the third world with subsidized abortion, Contraception, and gender ideology?

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Tigerdroppings PT and OT will bash Catholicism, not come out in any kind of support for it. You already know that, but, I support your raising awareness on how things work around here when it comes to that particular issue.

For example, in the thread about the issue of blessing gay people, the board immediately condemned the Catholic Church and the Pope for performing Gay Marriages. There was no search for Truth, just a lusty indulgence in Catholic-bashing.

In closing, I will declare that Conservatism is not a "suicidal attitude". I will need to read a very complete and thorough analysis before I would even consider that conclusion to have any merit whatsoever. The Pope should try to offer some support for this conclusion.

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Have you ever been to an SSPX service? I have. I guarantee you Baptist Bible-thumpers (not that there's anything wrong with that) would hate it...

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I'm Catholic and I've been to plenty of Tridentine Masses.

So you’re not going to engage with anything I said? Lol. Ok.

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Pope is vague

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Then maybe he shouldn't speak.

His job isn't to speak in such a way his message can be molded like clay into whatever the listener wants.

When Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass though the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God, he didn't leave much there for interpretation.



Pope John Paul II:

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On Freedom and Responsibility
“The best guarantee of freedom and its real attainment depends upon the responsibility of individuals and peoples, upon the concrete efforts of each person at his own level, in his immediate environment, nationally and internationally. For freedom is not something that is given. It is something to be constantly won. It goes hand in hand with the sense of responsibility that everyone must have.” – From his Message for the Celebration of the Day of Peace, 1981.

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On Family Values:
“As the family goes, so goes the nation, and so goes the whole world in which we live.” – From his Homily in Perth, Australia on November 30, 1986.

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So you’re not going to engage with anything I said? Lol. Ok.

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Why are you trying to get me to answer your ridiculous questions? Should you not be arguing with the millions of Methodists who now embrace Homosexual sexual relations, Homosexual Pastors and same sex marriage?

Why don't you go argue with them? I'll tell you why - it's because you know that you'll hit a brick wall when they argue that, according to the Holy Spirit and Bible Alone, the United Methodist view on God's Plan for Human Sexuality is Ultimate Truth and that YOUR view is false and a lie.

So, why are you still trying to pick a fight with me?

PS Your questions are gone. The post that contained them is no longer listed in the Previous Post feature listing your previous posts.

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Why are you trying to get me to answer your ridiculous questions?

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What’s ridiculous about these questions?
- Can someone, who is not a Roman Catholic, enter heaven? Under what circumstances?
- Can a professing Roman Catholic be sent to hell? Why or why not?
- Is the Bible the inspired, inerrant Word of God? How or how not?
- Where does Rome get its authority from? And, how do you know that it’s legitimate? Can you prove it?
I only ask them to gain understanding of your position. I think these questions are perfectly reasonable questions to ask someone who makes the claims that you have made. Peter said:
1 Peter 3:15 (NASB95): always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
Feel free to quote directly from the catechism- though it would be more convincing if you could answer these questions using Scripture alone.

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Should you not be arguing with the millions of Methodists who now embrace Homosexual sexual relations, Homosexual Pastors and same sex marriage?

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I’d love to. And, I was doing just that, before you turned the thread into an attack on Protestants I hope you realize that I’m just messing with you. But, on a serious note, since we are obviously in agreement on the issue- why can’t we team up on these heretics? After all, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. (I assure you- I do not consider you, or Rome, an enemy)

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Why don't you go argue with them? I'll tell you why - it's because you know that you'll hit a brick wall when they argue that, according to the Holy Spirit and Bible Alone, the United Methodist view on God's Plan for Human Sexuality is Ultimate Truth and that YOUR view is false and a lie.

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I was, and I will continue to. I’m not afraid of a brick wall. They are all n obvious error- according to the clear and concise teaching of scripture (and Rome, for that matter).

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So, why are you still trying to pick a fight with me?

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I don’t pick fights- defend my position when it is attacked. Go back to the thread and read the posts. I responded to KTiger85’s challenge for intellectual debate (to which he never responded), then Rust Cohle chimed in- to which I responded with a systematic and biblical refutation (which he ultimately abandoned, and found solace in your position), at which point you hijacked the thread and turned it into an attack on Sola Scriptura (and Sola Fide- which is a strange flex, given the context of the original thread). I’m not even a “reformed” anything. I’m not “of Apollos, or Paul, or Peter”- I am of Christ. I don’t have any problem with anything that Rome teaches- that can be backed up with scripture. Moreover, I agree with Rome on the majority of topics concerning the Christian faith. The main point of contention is, always has been, and always will be- the ultimate source of authority; Sola Ecclesia (the church alone) vs Sola Scriptura (the infallible Word of God alone).

We can either continue to debate the ultimate authority, or we can join forces (on the issue of homosexuality ) and blast these heretics into a state of shame (and hopefully repentance) with a 1-2 punch of scripture and tradition. I would much prefer the latter.

Thanks for the update and reminder of the questions. I'm still not going to answer them in a post on tigerdroppings, because the answers are all there on the Catholic Answers website. You can find the answers there, and those articles can express the answers better than I can.

Your idea about how you and I can join together on the same team arguing against the United Methodists is a great idea. We are on the same team, BUT, the problem is that the Methodist won't accept my answer, which is that I believe that the UMC is wrong on the Homosexual issue because The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says that the UMC is wrong. The Catechism's position on this is based on Scripture, and on what the Apostles handed down to the Early Church.

A United Methodist won't be persuaded by my argument, because he will reject what the Catholic Church believes and teaches on this issue.

The problem is that when two Protestants have a debate on this topic, there is no Church hierarchy or teaching authority that is appointed to settle the debate, so the debate will never be settled. The Methodist and the Prodigal Son will each claim that their position is correct based on the Holy Spirit's guidance and inspiration as the Bible Alone is analyzed to find the Truth.

Having a Church Hierarchy and Teaching Authority is a good thing, but, Protestantism is based on the fundamental principle that the Catholic Church is wrong to have a Teaching Authority, because anybody can read his own Bible and discover God's Plan for Human Sexuality right in there - Bible Alone.

So, we still end up with the Methodist and the Prodigal Son pointing at each other saying the same thing simultaneously "You are wrong. What? No. YOU are the one who is wrong, not me."

If I chime in with a suggestion to just follow the Roman Catholic Catechism, neither side of the debate will agree to that (even though it is a great idea). The Catechism deals extensively with God's Plan for Human Sexuality.

I linked the answer to one of your questions. Catholic Answers has lots of articles on that question.

LINK

There's also many articles and extensive analysis of your question about the Bible.

Your two questions about Catholics and Protestants going to Heaven are answered directly in the Catechism and Catholic Answers.

I hate commie popes.