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re: Obama's plan to save the internet draws bold reactions
Posted on 11/10/14 at 3:57 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 11/10/14 at 3:57 pm to Korkstand
quote:
The people. The consumers. As it should be.
While I agree with the principle (and I also agree we need to get away from the 19th Century way of thinking about communication), I know how this ends when you let the government take it.
And it isn't pretty.
3
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:01 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I know how this ends when you let the government take it.
And it isn't pretty.
I don't care for the government any more than you do, but they've done a decent job with military, sanitation, telcos, highways, ad infinitum
ETA: this isn't going to turn the USG into the one and only ISP either. It's just going to limit anticompetitive practices that ISPs are either using now or will use in the future.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:03 pm to ell_13
quote:
Thank you. So many people do not understand how far behind we are compared to most other first world countries.
Its absurd. When my dad got fios about 5 years ago I thought him having 25meg down fiber was the shite even if he was paying out the arse for it. Then I moved to Germany and when I set up my internet they asked what speed I wanted. I told them the fasted you got. 100 meg cable 20 euro a month the first year and 40 after that. Then I moved to the UK, 100 meg fiber is about 30 pounds so around 55 bucks a month. I could have gone faster at 152 if I wanted.
Speeds that fast in the states would cost me an arm and a leg. When I went to visit my parents at their new house in Calabash NC, they had some ISP/TV I had never heard of. My dad was pulling about 75 down. My mom told me the price and all I could do was shake my head.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:07 pm to colorchangintiger
quote:
As for broadband, even though technology costs drop pretty fast as they become ubiquitous, I am still paying more money for less bandwidth than I was 8 years ago (Baton Rouge vs LC), and now I have data caps to go with my slower, more expensive internet!
They love to do things like this. They dangle it out there, let you decide what you want, then hike up the price. When I got my first cell phone text messaging was free. Then they discovered how useful it was and the rates shot up.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:09 pm to colorchangintiger
quote:
But, at least in the southern United States, water and electricity is almost always on; there are relatively few power surges, brown outs, or black outs; the water is safe to drink; both are relatively cheap and abundant.
As for broadband, even though technology costs drop pretty fast as they become ubiquitous, I am still paying more money for less bandwidth than I was 8 years ago (Baton Rouge vs LC), and now I have data caps to go with my slower, more expensive internet!
I mean, I have a $700 2 year old phone in my pocket that is more powerful than a $2000 desktop I built in 2002, but my internet speeds are nearly the same.
You ask if anyone has bragged about their water and electricity. Have you ever bragged about your ISP or cable provider? Unless you have FIOS or Google Fiber I bet you haven't.
Look at what ISPs have historically called innovation. Bundling more channels that you probably won't watch to drive up your cable bill is one of their big tactics. When Tivo came along many cable companies balked at issuing cable cards to force consumers to rent boxes from them instead. They rent out $100 cable modems at $10/month (at this point I would have paid $1300 for a $100 cable modem if I had rented it from them.) They gave us the great innovation of Pay-Per-View which allows you to pay $10 to watch a movie, while Netflix, operating under Net Neutraility lets you pay $8/month to watch an unlimited amount of their entire catalog. But the ISPs are the ones that innovate, right?
I love that everytime I have to call Suddenlink because something of theirs isn't working they pitch me on home phone service. Because I'm most likely to buy more of their stuff while I'm complaining to them how their stuff hardly ever works.
HOLY frickING shite I AGREE WITH EVERY WORD COLORCHANGE WROTE HERE
i've had comcast pitch their home service to me at least twice in the last year when i called to bitch about something.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:29 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I know how this ends when you let the government take it.
And it isn't pretty.
Like colorchangin said, it's not always bad (in fact, I'd argue that government has gotten more right than wrong), and this get/keep-govt-out-of-everything thinking is poisonous.
Our government is supposed to be of, by, and for the people. Net neutrality is a clear case of what's best for the people.
True competition among telcos would have resulted in extremely excessive and wasteful duplication of infrastructure. Thankfully, as with electricity and water, we didn't let that happen. Unfortunately, we haven't yet done enough to ensure that consumers wouldn't be taken advantage of. It's time to do that now.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:37 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:44 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I know how this ends when you let the government take it.
And it isn't pretty.
And allowing the companies that are most renowned for poor service and screwing customers continue unchecked is pretty? There isn't an easy win win answer. The choice is letting ISPs put restrictions on consumers and web sites that will stifle innovation in the web experience we consume, or let the government put restrictions on ISPs that will stiffle innovation of the pipe.
Would you rather
1) Be "stuck" with a price controlled 100 Gbps (or whatever speed fiber to the home tops out at with minimal R&D investment) but a web that is free and open to content creators and consumers
or
2) Pay through the nose for ever increasing speed and access limited content. Think the cable channel model, instead of infinite websites we go back to curated tiers.
I don't see a clear cut best answer there. Consumers aren't really in control in either situation, but #1 keeps a lid on prices and will make it easier for the little guy to keep pushing the envelope with new ways to watch videos of cats. #2 will see us paying more for less, but with the ISPs focused on more revenue through more speed, we might see bandwidth intense innovations that wouldn't otherwise come along with ISPs as utility companies.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 7:12 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
they will do exactly that.
yet they haven't...
Posted on 11/10/14 at 7:18 pm to C
Posted on 11/10/14 at 7:25 pm to Korkstand
quote:
uhhhh...
so every single case highlighted in the first link the company backed down to customer pressure... interesting.........
Posted on 11/10/14 at 7:49 pm to C
quote:
so every single case highlighted in the first link the company backed down to customer pressure... interesting.........
What?! All but 2 of those involved the FCC, and they all happened when rules were in place. And you want to see what happens without any real rules or oversight?
ISPs have constantly pushed the limits of what they can do. They are licking their chops at the prospect of having the actual legal ability to discriminate traffic.
Do you really want the internet to be a constant fight between consumer groups and ISPs who keep trying to frick over their customers?
You are either a shill, or you own stock in a big ISP.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:02 pm to CAD703X
quote:
i've had comcast pitch their home service to me at least twice in the last year when i called to bitch about something.
Isn't Comcast repeatedly voted as the worst company in America? These guys need some competition.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:05 pm to hikingfan
The Oatmeal- Net Neutrality
For People Who Like Pictures And Humor With A Side Of Serious.
For People Who Like Pictures And Humor With A Side Of Serious.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 8:06 pm
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:14 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Do you really want the internet to be a constant fight between consumer groups and ISPs who keep trying to frick over their customers?
Yes. Because at least there is a choice.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:21 pm to C
quote:
Yes. Because at least there is a choice.
What choice do you speak of? To pay or not to pay for service? I don't like those choices.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:22 pm to C
quote:
Yes. Because at least there is a choice.
How can someone be so wrong, yet think he is right? Blows my mind.
Let me try to break it down for you.
The free market works in real life because our roads are open, and we have laws that don't allow one company to impede us from going to another. The ISPs are our roads to the huge marketplace that is the internet. Why in the hell do you think that allowing them to do as they please with the roads we travel somehow gives you more choice?
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:52 pm to hikingfan
If net neutrality doesn't win ohh lawd
Our internet is already some of the shittiest in the world. We'll be paying 125+/month for shite if the ISP and big business republicans get their way.
ohh lawd Our internet is already some of the shittiest in the world. We'll be paying 125+/month for shite if the ISP and big business republicans get their way.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:57 pm to Mr Gardoki
quote:
One thing I heard from those that oppose it is that they don't want internet to be average and not innovate or improve. In general that does happen to everything the government regulates so I am a bit concerned about that. I don't know enough about it though.
I have government Internet. It's a gig up/down with no bandwidth cap or "fast lanes" for $70 a month.
Damn government for slowing up progress.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 11/10/14 at 10:48 pm to Korkstand
quote:
market works in real life because our roads are open
Terrible analogy if your trying to win the argument: toll roads, HOV lanes, bus, rail, take a plane etc.
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