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re: Is soccer in the US close to surpassing hockey as the 4th sport?
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:08 pm to ohiovol
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:08 pm to ohiovol
quote:
In terms of overall 'fans', sure, since they loyalties aren't split between two cities. In terms of passion? I disagree.
Well I would disagree but we're getting off on a bit of a tangent and that's really impossible to prove beyond me simply saying "I live here, you're wrong."
But your statement does bring up something interesting for this discussion. What makes something "popular"? Is it casual fans? Passionate? For example, I would say hockey has way, way more casual fans/people who follow a little but not a lot than soccer in America, but soccer might have more diehards. How would that factor into the discussion over which is indeed more popular?
1
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:16 pm to Buckeye Fan 19
quote:
Well I would disagree but we're getting off on a bit of a tangent and that's really impossible to prove beyond me simply saying "I live here, you're wrong."
Fair enough. For what it's worth, I live here too.
quote:
But your statement does bring up something interesting for this discussion. What makes something "popular"? Is it casual fans? Passionate? For example, I would say hockey has way, way more casual fans/people who follow a little but not a lot than soccer in America, but soccer might have more diehards.
To be honest, it seems the opposite to me.
quote:
How would that factor into the discussion over which is indeed more popular?
Not gonna lie, I'm not really sure how to answer this.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:19 pm to ohiovol
quote:
Not gonna lie, I'm not really sure how to answer this.
I think that die hard core that soccer/MLS fans have is more important to the growth and will allow the sport to outpace hockey at some point.
Soccer fandom is more a "lifestyle" than hockey is IMO. I think that where he was going with the casual fan comment.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:24 pm to kilo
JTapdancin´C
We´re talking about the US of A. Not the Midwest.
California
Arizona
Texas
Florida
New York
The South and Southern tinged Atlantic Seaboard
Simple arithmetic.
Add the middle and upper middle class under 35 across the entire country, and subtract the same, who prefer hockey.
It´s quite simple.
We´re talking about the US of A. Not the Midwest.
California
Arizona
Texas
Florida
New York
The South and Southern tinged Atlantic Seaboard
Simple arithmetic.
Add the middle and upper middle class under 35 across the entire country, and subtract the same, who prefer hockey.
It´s quite simple.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:25 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
, you´ll never see a hockey jersey in the street on someone.
Not really comparable, and honestly not surprising.
Weather esp. in the south isn't amenable to wearing a hockey jersey out and about. I usually only see them when I go to hockey viewing events. I don't even own a hockey jersey for this fact(although I'll probably purchase one this year, now that I live a bit further north). I do own Avs t-shirts, caps and such.
On the other hand, I'll throw on one of my soccer kits from time to time even not on a match day, because it's comfortable, wears like a t-shirt, and doesn't make me warm.
--------------------
You can't really make direct comparisons to hockey and soccer.
Soccer as a sport is clearly more popular than hockey. I don't think anyone can question that.
Comparisons to the USMNT and the US hockey team cannot be made. They are marketed differently and the organizations are set-up differently. The world cup and Olympic comparisons cannot be made. There's a reason why FIFA has special rules for soccer during the Olympic games. They don't want it to compete with the world cup, nor to be shrouded amongst all of the other events during olympics.
As has been mentioned, comparing the NHL and MLS as domestic leagues is tough. NHL is clearly the defacto top professional league in the sport. The quality of hockey played is relatively superior to quality of play in the MLS. MLS is a growing league and I think will eventually pass the NHL in overall TV viewership for the fact that the sport is already more popular as mentioned above, its much more amenable to play in all types of climate in the US, and the TV rights will make it easier to watch. MLS has much more potential than the NHL. The NHL might grow in popularity, but it has a much lower ceiling. But for now TV NHL>MLS most likely distinctly due to the northeast corridor and the midwest.
I've never seen any hard numbers. But I wouldn't be surprised if EPL viewership outclassed most regular season hockey games. But I don't think UEFA champions league games are watched more than playoff hockey, but that again isn't a fair comparison.
In regards to attendance numbers, again hard comparison. Capacity of stadiums is lower in most NHL arenas compared to MLS. Throw in the fact that way more games played in NHL season vs MLS season. Of course that's usually the same argument baseball likes to use
, but it's worth mentioning. Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:28 pm to ohiovol
quote:
Fair enough. For what it's worth, I live here too.
My bad, I was thinking you were "engvol" for some reason. I mean, I obviously saw your name, but the short, all-lowercased handle that ends in "vol" and has the block T next to it and my mind played a little trick on me I guess.
I don't know, I was at game 3 of the CBJ-Pitt series, I've been to some huge college football games over the year, that crowd rivaled and might have surpassed the loudest (and if you watched games 4 and 6, the crowds seemed almost just as nuts). I'm biased though, so whatever, haha.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 9:51 pm to BobBarker
If hockey players strike again, it could be all over.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:01 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
JTapdancin´C
We´re talking about the US of A. Not the Midwest.
California
Arizona
Texas
Florida
New York
The South and Southern tinged Atlantic Seaboard
Simple arithmetic.
Add the middle and upper middle class under 35 across the entire country, and subtract the same, who prefer hockey.
It´s quite simple.
How about you first? Lets see the "math". Some hard numbers and citations would be great to go along with your ad hominems.
Still havent found a link to back up the vitriolic nonsense you directed at me in your wall o text earlier? Doesnt surprise me, you do a lot of yapping without providing many citations.
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:13 pm to kilo
quote:
How about you first? Lets see the "math". Some hard numbers and citations would be great to go along with your ad hominems.
I´ve asked you to do it. I´ve seen your friend throw out some erroneous numbers, yet have said nothing.
Do it.
BTW I´m quite familiar with your part of the country (no expert, but quite familiar).
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:19 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
I´ve asked you to do it. I´ve seen your friend throw out some erroneous numbers, yet have said nothing.
Do it.
BTW I´m quite familiar with your part of the country (no expert, but quite familiar).
Its not for me to do. You bring it into the conversation, you get to provide the hard numbers.
quote:
Do it.
No
quote:
BTW I´m quite familiar with your part of the country (no expert, but quite familiar).
You should take your meds.
So you still dont have a link where I called anyone a "soccer fig"? Still dont have a link that provides the numbers to back up your demographic argument either?
The only one in this thread thats been so full histrionics and vitriol is you. Which is fairly telling.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:38 pm to kilo
Again, we´re back to the adolescent replies. Meds, really?
Since you´re too lazy to pull up data (I´ll admit, I damned sure am, but the honus is on you, Mr. American sports expert), let´s state the obvious.
Were the US to have gone through against Belgium, the following match would have been similar in mediatic following and importance to the ´Miracle on Ice´.
Were the US to have advanced, tumultuous would have been the mediatic swell, at the very least.
Simply making the final would have been a quasi national holiday, and winning, well.............
US Vs Belgium World Cup Match Avgs 16.5 Million Viewers On ESPN, 5.1 Million On Univision [UPDATED]
Since you´re too lazy to pull up data (I´ll admit, I damned sure am, but the honus is on you, Mr. American sports expert), let´s state the obvious.
Were the US to have gone through against Belgium, the following match would have been similar in mediatic following and importance to the ´Miracle on Ice´.
Were the US to have advanced, tumultuous would have been the mediatic swell, at the very least.
Simply making the final would have been a quasi national holiday, and winning, well.............
US Vs Belgium World Cup Match Avgs 16.5 Million Viewers On ESPN, 5.1 Million On Univision [UPDATED]
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 10:48 pm
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:45 pm to kilo
Not reading through 6 pages but as a league, no, the MLS has not yet surpassed the NHL. I don't think it's that far from happening though. The MLS keeps trending the way they are and the NHL shoots themselves in the foot with another stoppage, and who knows.
In a general sense, has soccer passed hockey? Hard to say during WC years. Obviously the interest peaks in WC years, and there is some fervor but will it last? I personally think it will. I think the numbers have increased with each of the WC's ever since the US hosted. Each time, a few more and more of those fans stick around to support the sport.
If not there, it's getting there.
ETA-For whatever it's worth, I know kilo is one who would love to see an MLS team in St. Louis. We've both lamented the fact that there isn't one and the likelihood that there won't be one in the near future.
In a general sense, has soccer passed hockey? Hard to say during WC years. Obviously the interest peaks in WC years, and there is some fervor but will it last? I personally think it will. I think the numbers have increased with each of the WC's ever since the US hosted. Each time, a few more and more of those fans stick around to support the sport.
If not there, it's getting there.
ETA-For whatever it's worth, I know kilo is one who would love to see an MLS team in St. Louis. We've both lamented the fact that there isn't one and the likelihood that there won't be one in the near future.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:46 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Again, we´re back to the adolescent replies. Meds, really?
AS opposed to calling people "adolescent" attributing fairly vulgar comments erroneously to me or the slew of other ad hominems that you have used thus far.
quote:
Since you´re too lazy to pull up data (I´ll admit, I damned sure am, but the honus is on you, Mr. American sports expert), let´s state the obvious.
You tried to enter it into the discussion. It isnt my responsibility to find citations for your opinions. You still havent been able to back one single thing you have said in this entire thread.
quote:
Were the US to have gone through against Belgium, the following match would have been similar in mediatic following and importance to the ´Miracle on Ice´.
Were the US to have advanced, tumultuous would have been the mediatic swell, at the very least.
Simply making the final would have been a quasi national holiday, and winning, well.............
This has nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread? Are you "mad" becasue I thought that the Miracle on Ice was a better achievement 6 weeks ago? I mean you came into this thread guns blazing, I dont understand the need for all this bullshite.
So hurry off and find a link that shows me calling someone a "soccer fig". Run along and find some links that provide citations to back your demographics argument.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:48 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Simply making the final would have been a quasi national holiday, and winning, well.............
As awesome as that would be and as crazy as things would be, it would not approach the Miracle on Ice. There were too many other issues that made the Miracle on Ice special that had nothing to do with the sport.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:50 pm to reedus23
quote:Exactly.
There were too many other issues that made the Miracle on Ice special that had nothing to do with the sport.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:50 pm to reedus23
quote:
As awesome as that would be and as crazy as things would be, it would not approach the Miracle on Ice. There were too many other issues that made the Miracle on Ice special that had nothing to do with the sport.
Oh you did it now.
Better hire a body guard.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:53 pm to kilo
Walked into a hornets nest huh?
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:57 pm to reedus23
Eh, its fairly tame til the emotional wall of text from Dandy Lion. Its a good conversation mostly.
I love soccer and I love hockey. That wont change either once soccer has left the NHL in its dust in a couple of decades.
I love soccer and I love hockey. That wont change either once soccer has left the NHL in its dust in a couple of decades.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 10:58 pm to reedus23
NHL TV deal is worth I think $200 million per year.
MLS TV deal is worth I think $90 million per year.
MLS is certainly closing the gap but not quite there.
I don't know how to put WC numbers into comparison because it's so unique. The true test in my opinion is will soccer maintain that fan base for the next 4 years until the next WC.
MLS TV deal is worth I think $90 million per year.
MLS is certainly closing the gap but not quite there.
I don't know how to put WC numbers into comparison because it's so unique. The true test in my opinion is will soccer maintain that fan base for the next 4 years until the next WC.
Posted on 7/6/14 at 11:05 pm to kilo
quote:
I love soccer and I love hockey. That wont change either once soccer has left the NHL in its dust in a couple of decades.
I do think in time it will. More people can relate to soccer because more people have played it.
I can point to two things that has caused me to lose interest in hockey. Back in the day of Hull & Oates, we had a fantasy hockey league. This was before there were all of the online fantasy leagues, so stats were kept manually. Well, yours truly got nominated and not so wisely agreed to be commissioner. Meant I was reading every single box score of every single game, looking not just for who scored goals, but were they power play, were they short handed, where they game winners. Yeah, hockey burn out. Second thing has been the work stoppages. Just lost any interest, even in the Blues. They almost got me back into it this year but did their traditional flame out in the playoffs act.
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