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War on poverty and programs to help the poor
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:46 pm
So we know the war on poverty hasn't worked and it's been a costly war
One might ponder a few reasons why
One article I was reading stated there were as many as 33 different programs in place to help the poor whether it be food assistance or housing assistance or something else
Call me crazy but wouldn't it just be easier if we just gave them money?
It just seems like a very poorly thought out bureaucracy that's bloated and does nothing other than piss money down the drain.
If we're going to spend that much money anyway why not just write some fat checks and be done with it?
Seriously, there has to be a better way. The idea that you can spend over 70K a year to help an impoverished family that perpetually stays impoverished is just absurd.
LINK
One might ponder a few reasons why
One article I was reading stated there were as many as 33 different programs in place to help the poor whether it be food assistance or housing assistance or something else
Call me crazy but wouldn't it just be easier if we just gave them money?
quote:
The U.S. Welfare System is ineffective at reducing poverty by its very design. Individual programs were created over a 50 year period with little coordination and no master plan. The combined benefits of the bifurcate system discourage both work and marriage which exacerbates poverty.
It just seems like a very poorly thought out bureaucracy that's bloated and does nothing other than piss money down the drain.
quote:
The United States has dramatically increased federal spending fighting poverty over the last 50 years. Total welfare costs have risen from $422 per person in poverty in 1960 to $18,013 per person in 2016. That totals $72,050 for a family of four even though the Poverty Threshold for such a family is $24,563.
If we're going to spend that much money anyway why not just write some fat checks and be done with it?
Seriously, there has to be a better way. The idea that you can spend over 70K a year to help an impoverished family that perpetually stays impoverished is just absurd.
LINK
23
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:47 pm to Powerman
It would be much better to just write them a check
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:48 pm to bmy
You could spend probably half of what you're spending now, cut some checks and they'd be better off.
Even if they blow all the money at least it's going back into the economy and not serving a giant web of stupid government programs that very inefficiently allocate those resources.
Even if they blow all the money at least it's going back into the economy and not serving a giant web of stupid government programs that very inefficiently allocate those resources.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:49 pm to Powerman
quote:
Call me crazy but wouldn't it just be easier if we just gave them money?
have you ever read up on the "universal income v. universal services" debate?
essentially, UBI is too neoliberal for true progressives and they believe in UBS instead
this takes the mistakes out of individual choice
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:50 pm to Powerman
How bout they get jobs and earn money instead.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
have you ever read up on the "universal income v. universal services" debate?
No
I have a pretty strong feeling I'd be on the UBI side though
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:51 pm to SlowFlowPro
Write them checks.
I need a new jet ski.
I need a new jet ski.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:51 pm to bmy
quote:
It would be much better to just write them a check
I'm going to make the assumption that poor people are poor because of financial illiteracy, high-time preference, and impulsiveness.
If they get lump-sum checks, then, more than likely, they are going to do poor people stuff - like leasing a new car, upgrading their abode, or what have you. Maybe by October or November, their liabilities add up, and now they can't afford to meet their bills, and their kids can't eat.
What then?
There will be cries about how we are letting people starve, and that WE MUST DO SOMETHING™
There's no end to transfer payments if they aren't directly related to responsibilities by the recipient.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:52 pm to TigerBait1971
quote:
How bout they get jobs and earn money instead.
A lot of people on government assistance have jobs
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:53 pm to Powerman
I guess they made poor choices.
Let's give them money.
Let's give them money.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:53 pm to HempHead
quote:
If they get lump-sum checks, then, more than likely, they are going to do poor people stuff - like leasing a new car, upgrading their abode, or what have you. Maybe by October or November, their liabilities add up, and now they can't afford to meet their bills, and their kids can't eat.
What then?
When there is no safety net for services to be met then they'll eventually adapt
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:54 pm to Powerman
quote:
I have a pretty strong feeling I'd be on the UBI side though
you aren't a complete loon, so of course
here is a relatively short podcast with one version of the debate
the UBS chick literally calls UBI "neoliberal" (which for these people is like being called a pedophile)
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:54 pm to Powerman
quote:
A lot of people on government assistance have jobs
Certainly. And if they get better ones, they can lose their assistance. There's a gap - I don't know the exact figure - between provided assistance v. income earned that incentivizes lower income. Obviously, that's a problem.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:54 pm to TigerBait1971
quote:
I guess they made poor choices.
Let's give them money.
Would you rather give them 18K a year in cash or spend 4 times that on other programs?
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:55 pm to Powerman
quote:
When there is no safety net for services to be met then they'll eventually adapt
You'd think that would be the case for no services or payments provided at all, but that won't stop busybodies and bleeding hearts from advocating for more of other peoples' money.
ETA: I should point out that I agree with you, that it would be more efficient to just cut a check rather than run a byzantine system of bureaucracies, but the same essential problem will still continue to accelerate.
This post was edited on 5/23/18 at 7:57 pm
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:57 pm to Powerman
quote:
Would you rather give them 18K a year in cash or spend 4 times that on other programs?
the UBS people claim that the universal services will be cheaper...i'm not sure exactly how
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:58 pm to HempHead
quote:
Certainly. And if they get better ones, they can lose their assistance. There's a gap - I don't know the exact figure - between provided assistance v. income earned that incentivizes lower income. Obviously, that's a problem.
I think the preferred solution would be a prebate check system like what is discussed in the fair tax plan
Write checks to everyone. I wouldn't have a problem with it being more progressive with the amount eventually diminishing. But the system shouldn't punish someone for making more.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:58 pm to Powerman
quote:
Would you rather give them 18K a year in cash or spend 4 times that on other programs?
Why isn’t neither a viable option?
Posted on 5/23/18 at 7:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the UBS people claim that the universal services will be cheaper...i'm not sure exactly how
Slavery is pretty cheap, ya know.
Posted on 5/23/18 at 8:00 pm to Powerman
The war on poverty should begin with a job application with the unemployment office. Then you are placed in a job. You either work or go hungry
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