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Vox: Germany now leads the West

Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:47 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:47 am
great timing following Trump's speech in Poland

quote:

Friday’s G20 summit in Hamburg, Germany, is going to be very, very different. President Trump is the least popular American leader in decades, and is at odds with the heads of almost every other G20 country on issues ranging from climate change to the future of NATO to the challenge posed by Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Trump also has tense personal relationships with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and new French President Emmanuel Macron, both of whom have publicly lambasted him for his leadership style and policies. Merkel has pointedly said that “the times when we could completely rely on others” (meaning America) are over. Macron has mockingly encouraged American climate scientists to move to France while also publicly lumping Trump in with autocrats like Putin and Turkish strongman Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

That means that for the first time in modern history, Western leaders are being forced to choose between trying to confront the US and trying to find ways of working around it — something that would have been unimaginable in the decades after World War II.


quote:

Some, like France’s Macron and Germany’s Merkel, have outright positioned themselves as alternative standard-bearers for the West, taking not-so-veiled shots at Trump in public appearances.


this is an interesting topic given all the outcry unleashed on Trump for promoting and defending Western values in his speech in Poland. it seems that the conflict is not about "the West" but what "the West" even is anymore, and more importantly, what Western culture should be moving forward.

it seems like there is a real concern surrounding an institution, the EU, and not the concept of "the West". Germany (and France) lead the EU and want to continue to be co-hegemons of Europe. Brexit threw a major wrench into these plans and with Trump leading the US, there is a real threat to the erosion of power of Germany (and to a much lesser extent, Franc) within their regional spheres.

this whole conflict highlights the issues of trying to create major trans-national governmental organizations, similar to the issues of Communism. at a certain point, leaders will emerge and want to maintain their power. Germany isn't projecting itself for Europe, it's projecting itself for Germany (as the de facto head of Europe). as with Communism, the primary requirement to keep this system going is a near irrational belief in that everything the leader does, is good and proper. eroding that confidence just a bit (like with Brexit) can lead to disastrous results for the collective.

the fact that so many Americans want nothing more than to cede our sovereignty to Germany is scary. this goes a lot deeper than just Trump, but Trump certainly is a lightning rod in the paradigm that shocked their conscience and they're doubling down on their beliefs to protect their value system.

i can put this in simpler terms: in what way is Germany truly willing to negotiate the terms of our previous agreements? are they offering anything real to the US right now, or are they demanding that we bow down to their power under the guise of ancient agreements (that they don't even follow themselves)? of course there is going to be conflict when Germany refuses to live up to its side of an agreement while demanding the US maintain every aspect of that agreement. of course there is going to be conflict when Germany pushes its policies as the only reasonable option and declares any deviation unreasonable or irrational. that doesn't make Germany a leader. it makes Germany everything they accuse Trump of being.
Posted by bamarep
Member since Nov 2013
51807 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:48 am to
In their biggest wet, sloppy dream.
Posted by goldennugget
Hating Masks
Member since Jul 2013
24514 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:48 am to
Western values according to Vox = open borders, anti white, anti Christian, identity politics
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:50 am to
quote:

Western values according to Vox = open borders, anti white, anti Christian, identity politics

yeah that's part of the issue, as i said

they are defending neo-Western values as the "new normal"

so it's no surprise they're masturbating to Germany in its current state
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
50328 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:50 am to
quote:

that doesn't make Germany a leader. it makes Germany everything they accuse Trump of being.


I almost replied to your post with one word: PROJECTION

Then I got to your last sentence.

LOL
Posted by Rakim
Member since Nov 2015
9954 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:50 am to
Vox fricking wishes

Popular means what exactly - left wing?

America First
This post was edited on 7/8/17 at 11:51 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:50 am to
quote:

I almost replied to your post with one word: PROJECTION

Then I got to your last sentence.



This post was edited on 7/8/17 at 11:51 am
Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
62453 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:51 am to
Yeah, fake news. I do remember the last few times Germany wanted a lot of power, though. Lol...
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134865 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:51 am to
I bet they've been sitting on this article for 2 months with a few blank spots for details of his speech like some left wing mad-lib.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:51 am to
quote:

Yeah, fake news. I do remember the last few times Germany wanted a lot of power, though. Lol...


i did almost go there, but it's not even worth the joke
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
50328 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:51 am to
It's not just VOX.

This talking point of Germany being the "new leader of the free world" has made its way even to this board by our Prog filth.

They want so badly to destroy Western values/tradition that they are wanting/willing to go the route Germany is.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:53 am to
quote:

This talking point of Germany being the "new leader of the free world" has made its way even to this board by our Prog filth.

They want so badly to destroy Western values/tradition that they are wanting/willing to go the route Germany is.

if you ever wanted an example of how progs want to eradicate classical liberalism (as "Western culture"), here you go
Posted by Rakim
Member since Nov 2015
9954 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:53 am to
I guess the US should allow Germany to host the UN and protect Europe by us leaving NATO.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:55 am to
quote:

I guess the US should allow Germany to host the UN and protect Europe by us leaving NATO.

you see that's the thing

Germany refuses to pay its NATO obligations, gets furious when teh US brings it up, while still demanding the US protect them

like with all Communists, they want our money while not living up to their agreements and giving us no say in the matter

that's what the world needs? submission to Germany?
Posted by LSUTigersVCURams
Member since Jul 2014
21940 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:55 am to
Great post. I have seen support for Trump's Poland speech from David Brooks of all people so hr must be doing something right.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:56 am to
yeah the new debate is "what do we want 'Western values' to be in the emerging world/future?"

it's pretty much that simple
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
50328 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:56 am to
quote:

if you ever wanted an example of how progs want to eradicate classical liberalism (as "Western culture"), here you go


I'm still kicking myself for not realizing how deep this was years ago. But when you believe....

Oddly enough it was my support for the Clinton in 2008 vs Obama when I realized "oh shite".
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134865 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:57 am to
quote:


I guess the US should allow Germany to host the UN and protect Europe by us leaving NATO.

I say that, since they're the new leaders, it's time we start pulling bases out of Germany since they've got it all under control.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422603 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:57 am to
quote:

Oddly enough it was my support for the Clinton in 2008 vs Obama when I realized "oh shite".


Posted by LSUTigersVCURams
Member since Jul 2014
21940 posts
Posted on 7/8/17 at 11:58 am to
quote:

Oddly enough it was my support for the Clinton in 2008 vs Obama when I realized "oh shite".



How so?
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