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re: Three ways to help the poor/jobless- choose the one you most support
Posted on 10/26/14 at 7:39 pm to TT9
Posted on 10/26/14 at 7:39 pm to TT9
quote:
It will fund them until they can get back on thier feet.
What time frame is appropriate to expect said folks to get back on their feet?
Plans to ensure people aren't abusing such a generous forgiving system?
Not trying to create a gotcha moment or troll. Genuinely interested to here the other side's solutions and how to implement them so they work long term.
0
Posted on 10/26/14 at 7:48 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
We need to enable the poor to raise out of poverty, not give them handouts which keep them in the cycle of poverty.
This is where we're doing it wrong. The incentive is to remain poor.
Posted on 10/26/14 at 7:48 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Free country? I WISH MORE PEOPLE TOOK A STANCE ON HUNGRY AND HOMELESS. AND JOBLESS PEOPLE . I'm for people showing up to work for food and shelter if their able to!
Posted on 10/26/14 at 7:54 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:I'd want a basic income to replace the minimum wage and the EITC, even though they're not "specific" programs.
3) Basic annual income. All current specific programs are abolished.
EDIT: And Social Security, that's a big one that needs to go to make a basic income work fiscally.
This post was edited on 10/26/14 at 8:19 pm
Posted on 10/26/14 at 8:12 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
2) And they have to be the jobs the illegals are currently taking.
Posted on 10/26/14 at 8:16 pm to Iosh
A government program for unempliyed persons to work where? And do what? In my opinion the government can't creat enough jobs or fund them for all the people who need them. Lets face the facts,since more women went into the work force and also african. Americans, and with the raising. population ,we do not have enough jobs for all people to hold down jobs and further more, probably not enough money to pay out equally !
Posted on 10/27/14 at 7:35 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
2
I don't mind helping the helpless and those who genuinely want to better their lives. I will kick the clueless and lazy to the curb.
I don't mind helping the helpless and those who genuinely want to better their lives. I will kick the clueless and lazy to the curb.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 7:37 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
We need to enable the poor to raise out of poverty, not give them handouts which keep them in the cycle of poverty.
Yup.
Keep voting Democrat. How long have they been under the assumption that Democrats are "helping"?
Not saying Republicans help either.
There is a third group that is rising. And will continue to among those who can think for themselves.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 7:54 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
Teaching the poor basic life skills, how to ballance a check book, how to be responsible with Money. Easy things to cook, etc.
This, but even technical skills would be alright by me as well
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:46 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
I think the phrase to give a man a fish feed fora day. Teach a man to fish feed him for life is a good approach to helping the poor.
Teaching the poor basic life skills, how to ballance a check book, how to be responsible with Money. Easy things to cook, etc. We need to enable the poor to raise out of poverty, not give them handouts which keep them in the cycle of poverty.
Agree.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This is where we're doing it wrong. The incentive is to remain poor.
Maybe so.
We can set up system after system after system that we think is more efficient and actually has an effect, but it doesn't mean anything if the individual doesn't, of their own volition, chose to use the system to help better themselves.
It seems to me that a large portion of the lower class are content living paycheck to paycheck along with the help of government assistance.
I'm not sure if it's because they are legitimately content or if it's just become ingrained in their culture that that's the way life has to be. (cyclical and generational poverty)
In either case, the responsibility lies on the individual to take advantage of taxpayer assistance to pivot themselves out of poverty and the lower class.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:52 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
4.) Put a true limit on length of time on the dole unless there is a true disability, not some bs that a doctor agrees to just to have the patient quit badgering him. You'd be surprised at how many people are capable of providing for themselves when they know the net is about to be yanked.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:53 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I lean towards option 2.
How about, "If you don't work, you don't eat."
If a person CANNOT do anything in the private sector, then, yeah - I would prefer finding something for them to do, rather than sit on a$$ - but what if it costs more money to administer this program than to just give them money?
I mean, is it worth it on principle? I would lean that way, because I believe it would show a benefit in less people taking the deal, but I could be wrong and it would be both tough to prove and tough to sell to the general public.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:54 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
4. Do not become one of them.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:55 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
2
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:56 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
What is 3? I get paid a basic income to do nothing? What amount is this basic income? Or is this just #1 with no 'safety net'?
Posted on 10/27/14 at 9:57 am to Meauxjeaux
2
Posted on 10/27/14 at 11:25 am to Ace Midnight
quote:The issue with this is that structural unemployment is starting to become a thing. Entire industries are either being automated to the point of eliminating jobs for all but the top-line administrators (and engineers/coders), or being outsourced such that it's not profitable for Americans to work them. The few industries that resist outsourcing, such as health care and education, are already choked with waste and make-work as it is.
How about, "If you don't work, you don't eat."
You might say say "okay, train all these guys as roughnecks and ship 'em to Dakota or Texas" but (1) any field that still uses physical labor (which is expensive!) is already being automated like hell (2) if a national training program tries to target certain industries it will melt the remaining margins with oversupply.
Even the low-level white collar jobs are getting supplanted by algorithms whenever possible. I'm not so sure the Luddite fallacy is a fallacy these days.
Posted on 10/27/14 at 12:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
1) The current system of indivudal programs for each basic need. Food stamps for food, medicaid for health, section 8 for housing, and all the other programs.
2) Public jobs for those who show compelling evidence that they really cannot find a job in the private sector. These jobs would pay rates comparable to the state/region, and the jobs offered would reflect which industries/services are in highest demand in the area.
3) Basic annual income. All current specific programs are abolished.
4) Free market - we eliminate all taxes for people who make 7 figures or more, and let them create jobs
Posted on 10/27/14 at 12:38 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
4) Work-for-pay program. In order to get public monies, recipients must work 20-30 hours for state or local government (picking up litter, digging ditches, earning a GED, etc) for those not excused for medical reasons.
ADDENDUM: Any program should have an incentive for getting off of it, not a disincentive which is what happens in many cases now.
ADDENDUM: Any program should have an incentive for getting off of it, not a disincentive which is what happens in many cases now.
This post was edited on 10/27/14 at 12:40 pm
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