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The Trouble with Civil War Hypotheticals

Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:28 pm
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33406 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:28 pm
Excellent meditation on the odd fact that the losing side in the Civil War has effectively enjoyed the spoils of victory lo these many years:
quote:

With the exception of the brief interval of Reconstruction, the states of the former Confederacy have been able to exert as much influence on national affairs and on matters of race as they had before the Civil War, and possibly more. Having lost the quest to maintain slavery, they put in place sharecropping—a system of agricultural serfdom—which was dominant for the next eight decades. Prior to the Civil War, slaveholding states held a disproportionate influence in Congress, because the census counted sixty per cent of the enslaved population—people who could not vote—in apportioning representation. After the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, the census counted the entire black population, but the regime of white terrorism that followed Reconstruction insured that these African-Americans could not vote, either. Thus, Southern white political power was amplified after the war by the mere existence of disfranchised African-Americans living in Southern states.
LINK
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
43337 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:30 pm to
ok?
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:30 pm to
We should have sent them back to Africa so they could avoid all that terrible stuff whites did to them.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89542 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

the losing side in the Civil War has effectively enjoyed the spoils of victory lo these many years


Yeah, history is complex. Nobody wants to hear that or discuss the how, when or why.

Just tear the statues down. You're brainy talk is going to fall on deaf ears (of both sides, frankly).
Posted by Mr.Perfect
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2013
17438 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:31 pm to
Why didn't the north build them public mixed income housing?

Racists.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
63026 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:32 pm to
That's because the north was ultimately still OK with black discrimination, the south had valuable resources, and you know, they were forced back into the union, so uh, yea, they got representation. They were still somewhat fresh off fighting that kind of thing.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33406 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

Just tear the statues down.
Do you think a lot of debate went into the statue erection in the mid-century?
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35239 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

We should have sent them back to Africa so they could avoid all that terrible stuff whites did to them.
Well how do you send people back to a place they were never at in the first place, unless they were elderly and arrived before importation was banned decades before or illegally smuggled here?
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

Well how do you send people back to a place they were never at in the first place, unless they were elderly and arrived before importation was banned decades before or illegally smuggled here

Man you really got me there. I never thought of that.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

Excellent meditation on the odd fact that the losing side in the Civil War has effectively enjoyed the spoils of victory lo these many years:


good fricking god.

Did you want to enslave southerners? You know the racially integrated society?

fricking imbecile.
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
23190 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:38 pm to
So we should take 10 percent of California's evs away?

Support.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134865 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

The New Yorker
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89542 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Do you think a lot of debate went into the statue erection in the mid-century?


Meh. Lee Circle is the gold standard here - erected in 1884. Your argument is largely invalid.

When did they build the Korean War Memorial? Or the National WWII Memorial (not the USMC)?

Things take time, but the coincidence of the 1960s Civil Rights movement and the centennial (and understandable nostalgia) of the Civil War is too convenient to just gloss over with "racism" - at least IMHO.
Posted by GeauxLSUGeaux
1 room down from Erin Andrews
Member since May 2004
23309 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

Well how do you send people back to a place they were never at in the first place, unless they were elderly and arrived before importation was banned decades before or illegally smuggled here?


Look up the history of Liberia. Really interesting what happened there.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33406 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

Well how do you send people back to a place they were never at in the first place, unless they were elderly and arrived before importation was banned decades before or illegally smuggled here?
No doubt he holds the un-self-aware ironic position of people shouldn't have to pay reparations since they weren't the ones who did it!
Posted by Ebbandflow
Member since Aug 2010
13457 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

We should have sent them back to Africa so they could avoid all that terrible stuff whites did to them.


Racist
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

the losing side in the Civil War has effectively enjoyed the spoils of victory lo these many years


If you believe the south has been enjoying the spoils of victory you've never been to the south
Posted by Catman88
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2004
49125 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:52 pm to
Lincoln won the war and wanted to send blacks back to Africa before he was killed by a white supremacist..
Posted by The Pirate King
Pangu
Member since May 2014
57698 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

erection


*giggles* you said erection
Posted by Ebbandflow
Member since Aug 2010
13457 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

Well how do you send people back to a place they were never at in the first place, unless they were elderly and arrived before importation was banned decades before or illegally smuggled here?


Your audience isnt very bright and also believes white people had the authority to ship people to another continent. Dumb arse people say dumb arse things
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