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Started By
Message
The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Thought and Expression
Posted on 8/12/14 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 8/12/14 at 3:29 pm
quote:...among the many statements in the document. Very interesting, say I unto thee. LINK /
Freedom of belief is absolute but the freedom to act on a belief is not.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 3:47 pm to ballscaster
Hard to argue with. Predict some will try.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:02 pm to ballscaster
Jihadists stand in opposition to the motion, Mr. Chairman. Become Muslim or die.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:04 pm to ballscaster
I believe this is one of the most important statements:
quote:
There is no right not to be offended, or not to hear contrary opinions. Respect for people’s freedom of belief does not imply any duty or requirement to respect those beliefs.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:07 pm to ballscaster
So...the moral freedom to meet an opposing action with an equal reaction is off the table? Evil - who will ignore the high standard of an Oxford Declaration - takes the gloves off...but those who oppose evil...can't?
I won't argue the morality of that assertion...but the practicality of it is the delusional folly of an unrealistic Utopian dream club.
Unless they argue in an ultimate sense. I.e., Jesus did promote the idea of resisting Evil with passivity and love. But, He also said that His Kingdom..."is not of this Earth". I assume that he means one who follows this spiritual methodology - for the next life - won't end up facing evil and having it ruin their life.
They need to go tell ISIS this extraordinary wisdom.
I won't argue the morality of that assertion...but the practicality of it is the delusional folly of an unrealistic Utopian dream club.
Unless they argue in an ultimate sense. I.e., Jesus did promote the idea of resisting Evil with passivity and love. But, He also said that His Kingdom..."is not of this Earth". I assume that he means one who follows this spiritual methodology - for the next life - won't end up facing evil and having it ruin their life.
They need to go tell ISIS this extraordinary wisdom.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:16 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
I believe this is one of the most important statements:
quote:
There is no right not to be offended, or not to hear contrary opinions. Respect for people’s freedom of belief does not imply any duty or requirement to respect those beliefs.
I agree
Posted on 8/12/14 at 4:32 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
quote:I believe this is one of the most important statements: quote: There is no right not to be offended, or not to hear contrary opinions. Respect for people’s freedom of belief does not imply any duty or requirement to respect those beliefs.
I agree
Me too.
So I guess the Progs will drop their efforts to censure Free Speech, in the form of Political Correctness? Nahhhhtttt!
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:46 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Freedom of belief is absolute but the freedom to act on a belief is not.
Freedom of belief should be regarded as absolute not because it's innocuous without a corresponding action but because it's merely a biological reaction to available environmental inputs. True belief is ALWAYS innocent even when doctrine is not, and therein lies a major theological problem. The theist who asserts a merciful god but with a conditional paradise must also assert the opposite of my first statement, that is, he must insist that belief is NOT an innocent process but one of will.
So, we're left to contend with persons who are not fully committed to the notion of freedom of belief, even when they publicly agree that it exists. Within my understanding, there are only two values that can be assigned to a particular belief: true or false. Those other persons... those theists.... add another set of qualifiers: whether it's willful or not, and thus are willing to accept that some beliefs deserve punishment, albeit not in the here and now. A principle they're perfectly willing to ABIDE and for which they'll even proclaim an assent, therefore, is not one to which they ultimately subscribe. Such mental dissonance, unfortunately, surely results in social conflict.
This post was edited on 8/12/14 at 5:56 pm
Posted on 8/12/14 at 5:55 pm to RCDfan1950
quote:
Me too.
So I guess the Progs will drop their efforts to censure Free Speech, in the form of Political Correctness? Nahhhhtttt!
I'm pretty liberal, and that is literally the biggest pet peeve I have.
Twitter, tumblr and facebook are outright cesspools of wannabe slacktavists playing the 'holier than thou' game.
It's disgraceful.
Posted on 8/12/14 at 8:07 pm to ballscaster
Great read thus far. Thanks for posting!
Posted on 8/13/14 at 7:20 am to Zach
quote:
Jihadists stand in opposition to the motion, Mr. Chairman. Become Muslim or die.
As for physical fates in THIS world, that was a Christian attitude, as well, until enlightened people such as Mr. Chairman had the bravery and paid the sacrifice to speak up.
As for eternal existence, it's still an attitude we can ascribe to most Christians.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 8:39 am to RCDfan1950
If the only purpose of a Christian is to save his soul for admission into heaven, then can a Christian abandon those who have not been saved and serve the purpose? Or does the Christian have a duty to help others realize the purpose, and provide them with the opportunities to embrace the purpose?
Turning the other cheek works on the personal level, and I believe that was the extent of Jesus' lesson. Laying down your life for others, another lesson, doesn't require turning the other cheek when evil will prevent those others from having the opportunity to achieve redemption.
Turning the other cheek works on the personal level, and I believe that was the extent of Jesus' lesson. Laying down your life for others, another lesson, doesn't require turning the other cheek when evil will prevent those others from having the opportunity to achieve redemption.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:25 am to RCDfan1950
quote:
So...the moral freedom to meet an opposing action with an equal reaction is off the table?
You misunderstood the statement.
ONLY actions deserve other actions. The mere holding and/or espousal of a belief should bear no reactionary physical consequence.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 11:48 am to Rex
quote:I think you're right. That's why I cited this in my OP:
As for eternal existence, it's still an attitude we can ascribe to most Christians.
quote:One recent issue I had a bit of trouble with was the one that involved a bakery refusing to sell a cake to a certain client on account of the client's open sexual preference as it stood against the baker's personal beliefs. I seem to remember that the baker lost the case; not sure. Many here thought that this was a first amendment violation. Of course it wasn't since the state limited not the baker's right to free religion or belief, but the baker's right to free commerce. The belief wasn't challenged; the entrepreneurial action based on that belief is what was challenged and subsequently limited. I think many on the board conveniently failed to see the obvious difference between the two.
Freedom of belief is absolute but the freedom to act on a belief is not.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 12:00 pm to ballscaster
quote:You've misrepresented the facts of that case and the boards reaction to it.
One recent issue I had a bit of trouble with was the one that involved a bakery refusing to sell a cake to a certain client on account of the client's open sexual preference as it stood against the baker's personal beliefs. I seem to remember that the baker lost the case; not sure.
The bakery never refused to sell anything to a client on account of the client's open sexual preference. The bakery simply refused to offer a certain product on the grounds that doing so would be against their personal religious beliefs. I think many on the board conveniently failed to see the obvious difference between the two.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 12:12 pm to LSUnKaty
quote:No, I didn't.
You've misrepresented the facts of that case and the boards reaction to it.
quote:It is literally what they did.
The bakery never refused to sell anything to a client on account of the client's open sexual preference.
quote:This is also literally what they did.
The bakery simply refused to offer a certain product on the grounds that doing so would be against their personal religious beliefs.
quote:I see the difference between the two, but they do have one very important similarity; they both are true.
I think many on the board conveniently failed to see the obvious difference between the two.
The baker has the right to believe anything he wishes. The baker hasn't the right to act on that belief in any way he wishes.
Posted on 8/13/14 at 12:49 pm to ballscaster
quote:Nope. They are happy to sell products to gay clients. The just refused to make a certain custom product. The refusal was based on the nature of the product requested, not on the basis of the customers sexual orientation.
It is literally what they did.
Let me ask you, according to The Oxford Declaration on Freedom of Thought and Expression, if person A believes X is morally wrong while person B maintains X is objectively good, can person B compel person A to do X for the common good?
Posted on 8/13/14 at 1:01 pm to LSUnKaty
quote:Irrelevant.
The refusal was based on the nature of the product requested, not on the basis of the customers sexual orientation.
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