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1
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:12 pm to kingbob
It makes me sick that I agree with everything you wrote.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:13 pm to stuntman
quote:
How would Trump/Ryancare have stopped the collapse? All the benefits w/ no penalties means it would have collapsed even faster, but Republicans would have gotten the heat for the collapse instead of where the blame belongs; Dems.
Obama's name will forever be tied to this shitfest of a law.
Except Republicans are now the party that failed to do anything about it but promised for 7 years that they would do so. Republicans control all branches, the Dems learned the hard way that trying to blame shift to the minority party is a tough strategy to pull off when people are facing their cancellation notices or higher bills and the party in power is doing nothing about it.
Their best shot going forward is to hope they knock the rest of their legislative agenda out the park and the American economy picks up in key parts of the country and healthcare somehow is not on the minds of the electorate.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:16 pm to GumboPot
I'm not sure how the HFC is to blame for a crappy bill that fixed nothing. The bill wasn't their idea and they were given little input into how it should be shaped. It wasn't the HFC that failed to build any kind of consensus or traction behind the bill, that was Trump/Ryan who tried to ram it down everyone's throat. The bill polled horribly with the general public and Republicans, it had a terrible CBO score.
The whole thing was a giant trainwreck that could very well have led to a Dem wave in 2020 since once the GOP passed it, the party takes ownership of the mess.
Trust me, the Dems would love nothing more than the for the GOP to own it so they can come in with the next phase of ObamaCare...single payer.
The whole thing was a giant trainwreck that could very well have led to a Dem wave in 2020 since once the GOP passed it, the party takes ownership of the mess.
Trust me, the Dems would love nothing more than the for the GOP to own it so they can come in with the next phase of ObamaCare...single payer.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:17 pm to Revelator
quote:
Man that article has lots of suppisiton and hypotheticals!
It's more of a prediction. But everyone has been predicting that Obamacare is designed to collapse and then single payer will be ushered in.
We had our chance to stop single payer and failed. Hopefully we get another shot.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:23 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you think their could be a system which enabled catastrophic insurance for everyone along with a more free market system? A two-tiered system?
This is what I believe is necessary. Basically, it starts with reforming EMTALA. Under the new system, ER's have flexibility to screen people more easily to determine what is an "emergency" and what isn't. The emergencies then get treatment and the non-emergencies get shown the door. The government foots the bill for life-saving care.
Insurance covers prescription medication, chronic condition care, treatment for minor injuries and ailments, and medical costs beyond just getting you stable, but not routine checkups. Insurers cannot reject or drop customers for pre-existing conditions, but they can charge them extra IF they were uninsured when they acquired said condition (ex: uninsured person gets in a car accident which injures his spine, and THEN tries to get insurance to cover chronic care).
What would make this system work, is that it would all be at the state level. The federal government steps out completely (except for the FDA). The state's define what an "emergency" is, and what the procedure is for evaluating those who show up at the ER.
I think that may be the only real workable option at this point.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:33 pm to stuntman
quote:
Gumbo, that bill was fricking horrible. Everyone knows it.
It's a blessing in disguise that it didn't get passed. No fricking way single payer is on the table and Dems are still going to get the majority of the blame for the rising costs of healthcare.
It's up to these pos Republicans, the Establishment, not the HFC (who actually kept their word), to just start repealing one law after another that puts government in the way of healthcare.
Agreed and the article is just weird. Hillary's Favorite Caucus? Why are they dissing the HFC?
I think the article is jumping the gun that just because dumbo Bernie may intro single payer-it is a conspiracy that this is what they all want. They are all mostly all dirtbags in DC, but come on...
Why all the hate for the HFC? As I have posted, Jim Jordan tried to reintro a Ocare replacement bill LINK they ALL VOTED yes on when Obama was President. H.R.1436 - Why don't they start with this and add all of the convoluted stuff they want?
I trust The HFC over Speaker Ryan any day. I was all for trying Ryans bill, but I don't think enough people trusted they would even move on to Phase II. Trump wants to work with democrats. They all have to do their jobs for a change. The whole secret bill in basement thing starting this off-- was so ridiculous.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:33 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Republicans control all branches, the Dems learned the hard way that trying to blame shift to the minority party is a tough strategy to pull off when people are facing their cancellation notices or higher bills and the party in power is doing nothing about it.
Now, take that just one step further and imagine this horrible bill would have passed. Costs would have continued to skyrocket and instead of getting some of the blame, they would get ALL of the blame.
Again, it's a great thing this horrible bill didn't even make it to a vote. It would have taken "Obamacare" completely out of the lexicon when it comes to a fricked up health care system.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:48 pm to stuntman
True. The real problem is in about half of the republican party the moderates aren't really moderates-- they are ObamaCare Lite democrats. And the democrats moderates aren't really moderate they are full blown left-- but maybe one guy that said he'd work with Trump.
Trump is now trying to work with the democrats head-on. When they refuse and you know they will as Obama will smack them back. They will be voted out. Doing the math-- we will have enough to get rid of the montrosity called Ocare.
Trump is now trying to work with the democrats head-on. When they refuse and you know they will as Obama will smack them back. They will be voted out. Doing the math-- we will have enough to get rid of the montrosity called Ocare.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 11:54 pm
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:48 pm to GumboPot
quote:
It's more of a prediction. But everyone has been predicting that Obamacare is designed to collapse and then single payer will be ushered in.
We had our chance to stop single payer and failed. Hopefully we get another shot.
The end goal of Obamacare was Switzerland. Not single-payer.
Even if some opportunistic liberal politicians tried to sell their liberal constituents on it because it was popular and easy for them to understand.
If you read the wonkish liberals, moderates AND conservatives that wrote about this in policy white papers over the decades, that is where they were largely borrowing from. Since pre-current Switzerland was very similar to pre-ACA America.
Switzerland was facing a healthcare crisis, a growing uninsured population and out of control costs and a market that was pricing more and more people out of it every year. It was mostly for-profit private insurance and delivery with some public programs to help marginal groups.
It was reformed into a system that built on what was there so it is still structured with private insurance, but with stricter oversight to keep insurance costs low and decentralized so competition can help keep costs low(literature on the effectiveness is debated, though most think in some areas it achieved its aims. Though costs remain much higher then most single-payer systems).
Drug prices are federally negotiated to keep costs low along with some other mechanisms on the state and insurer level.
There is a set of minimum benefit standards and capped out-of-pocket expenses that all plans must cover. A lot of that responsibility is spread across the states and lots of regulation, healthy lifestyle promotion and structure is left up to them.
Of those mandated benefit plans that all insurance plans must cover, a profit can not be made, only enough to pay back the cost of the highly regulated administrative and operating costs. Money can however be made on offering additional supplemental insurance, which lots of people buy that can provide more extensive benefits or nice hospital upgrades or concierge services.
A public option.government fall back covers the poor and elderly. A punitive mandate is in place to make sure there is no free-rider problems and the country isn't just letting people die on the streets.
You can got to page 118 to read a dozen page ovrview of the Swiss system.
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 12:01 am
Posted on 3/27/17 at 12:18 am to GumboPot
Thank goodness for the HFC.
If you thought that bill was worth passing you have issues.
No way was phase 2&3 ever going to see light of day.
The replacement can be so much better.
If you thought that bill was worth passing you have issues.
No way was phase 2&3 ever going to see light of day.
The replacement can be so much better.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 12:24 am to GumboPot
So you go to AutoUnivers and they sell you a lemon?
You take that lemon over CarsRUs, and they refuse to give you much on trade
And your solution is to go back to AutoUniverse and try let them talk you into a lease agreement, on a different car?
Nah, that aint happening
You're going to take what CarsRUs will give you, be mad for a little while, but drive away with a car that runs like its supposed to
You take that lemon over CarsRUs, and they refuse to give you much on trade
And your solution is to go back to AutoUniverse and try let them talk you into a lease agreement, on a different car?
Nah, that aint happening
You're going to take what CarsRUs will give you, be mad for a little while, but drive away with a car that runs like its supposed to
Posted on 3/27/17 at 12:52 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Why didn't the establishment draft a bill more palatable to the conservatives?
First of all, there are plenty of conservatives outside the fricking HFC.
Second why doesn't the HFC come up with a plan palatable to the rest of the house republicans, who you know, out number them three to one?
Posted on 3/27/17 at 6:14 am to GumboPot
'Single' payer will NEVER EVER work in this country nor any other country its been tried in.
*America has a population of over 320 million
*Half of the US population doesn't even work or
hold down a job.
*Half of the people who do hold down a job or
work pay little or no federal taxes.
Do buy into the malarkey that only the 'wealthy' will pay for this.
Americans, those who actually work AND pay taxes, will see a federal tax rate of 60-70%.
I could go on and on.
But 'single' payer health care will never ever work.
We already have a couple of examples here in the good ole US of A.
TennCare was a huge colossal failure that the program had to be scrapped.
ermany's failures fall into several different categories.
Vermont's Green mountain Health Care never even got off the ground. They ran the numbers and they found out they were going to be way way short.
*America has a population of over 320 million
*Half of the US population doesn't even work or
hold down a job.
*Half of the people who do hold down a job or
work pay little or no federal taxes.
Do buy into the malarkey that only the 'wealthy' will pay for this.
Americans, those who actually work AND pay taxes, will see a federal tax rate of 60-70%.
I could go on and on.
But 'single' payer health care will never ever work.
We already have a couple of examples here in the good ole US of A.
TennCare was a huge colossal failure that the program had to be scrapped.
ermany's failures fall into several different categories.
Vermont's Green mountain Health Care never even got off the ground. They ran the numbers and they found out they were going to be way way short.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 6:22 am to GumboPot
It will be like the UK. Single payer for all and those who have the means will pay for additional health care to get timely treatment for everything other than a life threatening illness.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 7:47 am to gthog61
You know how, you old miserable hack. Trump is gonna cave to the Dems.
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