re: So NOAA and NASA are doctoring temperature data.

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I attributed the recent rise in sea ice to changes in the halocline. Not the entirety of Antarctic stratification.

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so you're telling me a stratification that occurs 150+ meters down, and isnt the determinate or even majority control of depth strata is driving surface sea ice production?

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I stated that recent growth in Antarctic sea ice was attributable to changes in the halocline.

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And I'm telling you the halocline is damn near non-existent in those waters. It's a a fact. the graph I posted was from a PRO warming paper in nature.

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You stated that the temperature is a far greater driver of stratification than the halocline, which is certainly true. But that's an insufficient basis by itself to invalidate the hypothesis.

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Your hypiothesis depends on halocline stratification. Due to deep water formation and low variability in salinity...there is essentially ZERO halocline stratification. that does invalidate your argument.

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You would have to quantify the surface temperature changes in that area specifically and show that they are in a direction which could also account for the ice growth.

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No, you don't. as you say one sentence later:

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he "warming" is still below the freezing point

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then you say:

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the loss of salinity results in increased sea ice,

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Loss of salinity? Is the salt going somewhere else? in fact, formation of sea ice INCREASES SALINITY. It's one of the two mechanisms that control deep basin circulation.

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but you seem to be arguing that the fresh water freezes on the surface and doesn't mix with the surrounding water? To which I say: not immediately, no. Eventually, after enough minima and drift, yes.

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good god man, We can get into small scale eddy formation as result of deep water formation from temperature and salinity. I'm telling you if the wtaer doesnt freeze on the surface, THERE IS NO WAY IT IS BEING TRANSPORTED TO THE 150 m DEPTH YOUR PAPER CLAIMS BEFORE MIXING.

it isnt happening. period.

Later tonight I'll download the salinity and temp data for the coastal Antarctic shelf and plot it up for you.