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Rich Lowry: Charlottesville

Posted on 8/13/17 at 10:55 am
Posted by Rakim
Member since Nov 2015
9954 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 10:55 am
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Exactly how I feel about the monuments and the fringe.

quote:

“if these monuments are going to become rallying points for Neo-Nazis, maybe they do have to go” — @RichLowry


A couple of points about Charlottesville:

—I don’t have a problem with Trump condemning both sides, since both sides resorted to violence. And he did denounce bigotry and hatred. But I agree that it was mealy-mouthed and wrong not to specifically name and slam the white supremacists whose march was the precipitating event here. Putting aside the merits, if you are a president people suspect is allied with the nastiest forces on the right, you should leap at the opportunity to denounce violent white nationalists. I wouldn’t be surprised if a Trump takes a second bite at the apple sometime soon, but this shouldn’t be so hard.

—I’ve been skeptical of the rush to pull up Confederate monuments, and Robert E. Lee—the focus in Charlottesville—is not Nathan Bedford Forrest. But if the monuments are going to become rallying points for neo-Nazis, maybe they really do need to go.

—It’s always important to maintain some perspective. We aren’t experiencing anything like the level of political violence of the late-1960s and mid-1970s. But we now have two fringes on the right and the left, the white nationalists and anti-fa, who have a taste for violence, love the thrill and attention that comes with it, and are probably going to grow stronger rather than weaker. Depressing.

Posted by Vols&Shaft83
Throbbing Member
Member since Dec 2012
69895 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 10:57 am to
quote:

Inanimate objects hurt my delicate little feelings, so they have to go. DON'T YOU MAKE FUN OF MY VAGINA ANYMORE
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421623 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 10:57 am to
quote:

whose march was the precipitating event here.

this is a stretch and may not even be true

we can't blame unpopular speech for fascists using violence to silence it. that's victim blaming and supporting fascism

quote:

We aren’t experiencing anything like the level of political violence of the late-1960s and mid-1970s. But we now have two fringes on the right and the left, the white nationalists and anti-fa, who have a taste for violence, love the thrill and attention that comes with it, and are probably going to grow stronger rather than weaker. Depressing.

i agree

but

they won't grow stronger if we ignore both and punish either for illegal behavior
Posted by Adam Banks
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
31796 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 10:58 am to
It doesnt seem that the monument is the rallying point. Or maybe I missed white supremacists randomly showing up at confederate monuments on a daily basis. It is the act of tearing them down. So one could infer that continued tearing down of monuments would be inciting a riot.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 10:59 am to
Yeah I'd be down for some serious crackdowns on both the left and right. I'm tired of crazy people driving the talking points.
Posted by geauxtigahs87
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2008
26259 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:00 am to
You know the best way to recruit people for your radical movement? Convince them their victims.

Removing these statues is having the direct opposite effect leftists believe they are accomplishing by removing them, and yet they are too blind to see it.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421623 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:01 am to
quote:

Yeah I'd be down for some serious crackdowns on both the left and right. I'm tired of crazy people driving the talking points.

violence is never a proper response to speech

and i mean actual violence, not, "misusing my gender pronoun is an act of violence", violence

the scary/sad part is it seems the police are being told to pick sides and that's just fricked
Posted by Antonio Moss
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
48294 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:01 am to
quote:

we can't blame unpopular speech for fascists using violence to silence it. that's victim blaming and supporting fascism


Agreed.


I also have an issue with abandoning principles because shitty people use them as rallying cries. Plus, what message does that send to fascists like ANTIFA who will see this as justification of their violence?
Posted by TheArrogantCorndog
Highland Rd
Member since Sep 2009
14814 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:01 am to
quote:

if these monuments are going to become rallying points for Neo-Nazis, maybe they do have to go” — @RichLowry 



Terrible logic... they're rallying points for idiots because they are being torn down... so if they dont get torn down, the idiots won't show

But since they're gonna get torn down, the idiots will always show


Personally, I don't care what happens to them, just as long as both sides on this retard spectrum quit embarrassing our nation
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421623 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:02 am to
quote:

Removing these statues is having the direct opposite effect leftists believe they are accomplishing by removing them, and yet they are too blind to see it.

wrong. it's accomplishing EVERYTHING they want out of the photo op

they're baiting the worst of the worst to come out in public
Posted by Dawgfanman
Member since Jun 2015
22218 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:02 am to
The guy in the car ensured all these monuments will come down. We have one on our town square in Georgia and I fear for the idiots who will show up on both sides when it is inevitably removed.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:03 am to
quote:

violence is never a proper response to speech



It isn't, but it is going to become a vicious cycle, since after Berkeley both sides look like they come for a fight. I don't want to pick between two versions of authoritarian assholes.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421623 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:03 am to
quote:

Plus, what message does that send to fascists like ANTIFA who will see this as justification of their violence?

it has clearly emboldened them

which has led to their opposition to march more prepared for the violence/threats

that's a huge reason why VA turned out the way it did. this is the first major clash where the right was prepared for the violence
Posted by thelawnwranglers
Member since Sep 2007
38741 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:03 am to
Waste of money to remove but I don't give a shite if they remove them
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421623 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:04 am to
quote:

since after Berkeley both sides look like they come for a fight.

yeah i just basically posted the same in the post below

quote:

I don't want to pick between two versions of authoritarian assholes.

that's why i made the thread earlier about just separating them and arresting whichever group crosses the line
Posted by Antonio Moss
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
48294 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:06 am to
quote:

it has clearly emboldened them


Absolutely, the fact that ANTIFA members weren't criminally slapped at Berkely and subsequent events has some bearing on yesterday's events.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:07 am to
Arrest them all at the next clash, treat them like the assholes they are and see if that helps. I really hate authoritarian assholes and I hate I have to think about their rights when I know that nearly all of them would not think of mine if they were in the same position.
Posted by geauxtigahs87
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2008
26259 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:08 am to
quote:

wrong. it's accomplishing EVERYTHING they want out of the photo op

Deep down I'm sure this is going through their mind, but I don't think its whats driving their actions.

Like most leftist beliefs, its originating from a "I'm morally superior to you" argument.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
421623 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:08 am to
it's a quagmire
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 8/13/17 at 11:12 am to
We all have to resist the authoritarian streak inside all of us. Each group doesn't realize how amazing America is with regards to freedom. They want to turn it into shitty versions of things that have failed elsewhere before.
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