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Red/Blue State Tax Return debate

Posted on 1/11/17 at 7:57 am
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 7:57 am
I have wanted to do this for awhile. But I think Bama has brought up some interesting points.

which states are givers and takers

quote:

They compared the 50 states and the District of Columbia on three metrics: 1) federal spending per capita compared with every dollar paid in federal income taxes; 2) the percentage of a state’s annual revenue that comes from federal funding; and 3) the number of federal employees per capita. The third measure received only half the weight of each of the others in the calculation.


quote:

Part of the explanation for why southern states dominate the “most dependent” category is historical. During the many decades in the 20th century when the South was solidly Democratic, its congressional representatives in both the House and the Senate, enjoying great seniority, came to hold leadership positions on powerful committees, which they used to send federal dollars back to their home states in the form of contracts, projects, installations.

Another part of the explanation is easier to discern. The reddest states on that map at the top—Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, New Mexico, Maine—have exceptionally high poverty rates and thus receive disproportionately large shares of federal dollars. Through a variety of social programs, the federal government disburses hundreds of billions of dollars each year to maintain a “safety net” intended to help the neediest among us. Consider, for example, the percentage of each state’s residents who get “food stamps” through the federal government’s SNAP program. This chart tells the story.


ETA: I can't copy images on my phone, any help would be appreciated.


This post was edited on 1/11/17 at 8:01 am
Posted by Ralph_Wiggum
Sugarland
Member since Jul 2005
10667 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 7:59 am to
Southern conservative whites complain about high taxes and spending welfare and federal money on minorities and yet they created the conditions that lead to higher poverty for minorities.
Posted by goldennugget
Hating Masks
Member since Jul 2013
24514 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:01 am to
Its been debunked on this board a thousand times.

There are too many factors and variables involved in the equation, yet the left wants you to focus on only two of them, dollars in and dollars out
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71117 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:04 am to
All three are poor measures.

1) Some federal spending is for the benefit of people who don't live in the immediate area. A border checkpoint in California is there to benefit all 50 states. Dredging the port in New Orleans benefits Midwestern states by making it easier to export their grain.

2) Easy to cheat on this measure. If you have high income taxes, your citizens deduct those from their federal taxes. So you get credit for self sufficiency even though a direct result of that policy is contributing less.

3) How is that less dependency than the others?? The feds are creating jobs in that state and pouring money in via the paycheck.

The measure also fails to recognize coropoate welfare, which disproportionately benefits the Northeast corridor.
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
68276 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:06 am to
Higher percentage of minorities.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71117 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:06 am to
quote:

Southern conservative whites complain about high taxes and spending welfare and federal money on minorities


That's an ignorant racist statement.

There are a LOT of necks on welfare and southern conservative whites don't want to go broke paying taxes for them. You think welfare is a black thing.
Posted by ballscaster
Member since Jun 2013
26861 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:09 am to
quote:


There are a LOT of necks on welfare and southern conservative whites don't want to go broke paying taxes for them. You think welfare is a black thing.
This is true. The following type of exchange has happened to me at least twice in New York:

Me: Welfare reform is needed. I don't know the hard numbers, but there are too many moochers, and it's too easy to mooch.

Leftist: this is typical of the racism of the right. There are more white people on welfare than people of color on welfare.

Me: I know. So why is it racist then?
Posted by MMauler
Member since Jun 2013
19216 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:09 am to
quote:

Southern conservative whites complain about high taxes and spending welfare and federal money on minorities and yet they created the conditions that lead to higher poverty for minorities.




Apparently, you have never heard of the DEMOCRAT'S Great Society.


It worked well beyond even LBJ's wildest imagination.
Posted by 50_Tiger
Dallas TX
Member since Jan 2016
40102 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:11 am to
Again bringing back up from the tax thread, if you adjusted on population and made white and black one to one, how would that look then??? I'll hang up and listen.
Posted by Balloon Huffer
Member since Sep 2010
3421 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:15 am to
funny, those from the 90% or greater white communities always preach the most.



so easy to talk about tolerance when there is nothing at all to tolerate.

The guy from Twin Cities talking about what white people did to the black communities?

How is that black community thriving up in your neck of the woods...
Posted by ballscaster
Member since Jun 2013
26861 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:15 am to
I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're asking whether whites or blacks pay more tax dollars per capita, I guess we all know that it's whites, but I'm not sure where you're going with this. It's a shame you hung up.
Posted by ballscaster
Member since Jun 2013
26861 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:16 am to
quote:

funny, those from the 90% or greater white communities always preach the most.

Westchester County, New York, home of Ya Girl.
Posted by 50_Tiger
Dallas TX
Member since Jan 2016
40102 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:21 am to
Okay let me simplify this for you:

10 Blacks and 10 Whites are in a room. How many of each demographic is on Welfare.

This is a one to one relationship.

Whites will always show as being more on welfare because there is significantly more of them.
Posted by ballscaster
Member since Jun 2013
26861 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:25 am to
quote:

Okay let me simplify this for you:

10 Blacks and 10 Whites are in a room. How many of each demographic is on Welfare.

This is a one to one relationship.

Whites will always show as being more on welfare because there is significantly more of them.
Oh, I see. You aren't smart enough to use and comprehend the term "per capita" and you're talking down to me and you don't even realize that I already answered this question.
Posted by 50_Tiger
Dallas TX
Member since Jan 2016
40102 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:36 am to
Actually,

I was clarifying my question on which demographic is on welfare the most since I did not make that clear (it was not a tax question btw.) However, you are so far up your own arse that you needed to make yourself feel better after getting butt pounded up and down the poliboard.

However,

Yes oh great ballcaster im dumb as a bag of bricks what will I ever do with my life??? /sarcasm

Bless Your Heart :)
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71117 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:44 am to
quote:


I was clarifying my question on which demographic is on welfare the most since I did not make that clear (it was not a tax question btw.) However, you are so far up your own arse that you needed to make yourself feel better after getting butt pounded up and down the poliboard.


The point was that welfare isn't exclusive to minorities, which is what Wiggum implied.
Posted by ballscaster
Member since Jun 2013
26861 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:46 am to
Oof.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71117 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:47 am to
quote:

so easy to talk about tolerance when there is nothing at all to tolerate.


I think you're looking at it the wrong way. It's not that we're racist because we have to live with "them".

It's more accurate to say we're less racist than limousine liberals, because we choose to live in diverse communities and they choose to live in lily white communities. If you hate a group of people and could move away from that group, you would.
Posted by 50_Tiger
Dallas TX
Member since Jan 2016
40102 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:52 am to
I wasn't arguing exclusivity either...

I'm sure we all can agree that Welfare does not see color.
Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:13 pm to
I just don't understand how so many of you are strong frontrunners for being independent, and yet the traditional south as a whole is very dependent on the progressive states.

From the federal point of view, southern states don't live up to their rhetoric. Is there anyway we can fix this disparity. Even if you remove half the minority population, you still have thousands of poor whites reliant upon GOVT aid, the very thing most of you hate
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