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RE: Trump indictment and the confusion amongst libertarians
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:51 pm
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:51 pm
I used to proudly identify myself as a libertarian. I came to age in politics with Ron Paul running in 2008 and 2012 (still my favorite politician in my lifetime), and reading Ayn Rand, Fredrick Hayak, Bill Buckley, Glenn Beck, Milton Friedman, listening to Rush, etc.
But at some point I realized many of these libertarian ideas were simply an unrealistic utopia. They may have had some application in the time of our founders, but only because of the demographics of the electorate at that time. They were great ideas, that were quite effective overall (with some speed bumps along the way) for about 2 and half centuries or so.
But eventually any society, even with all the guard rails our system has in place, will simply devolve into tribal authoritarianism. There are those who rule, and those who are ruled.
This country is not made up of rules and laws, and probably never has been, but instead is of pure political will, and has and probably always has been.
Either you have the conviction and desire to attain power, and then proceed to wield that power, or you will eventually be steamrolled by someone else who will happily wield power over you.
But at some point I realized many of these libertarian ideas were simply an unrealistic utopia. They may have had some application in the time of our founders, but only because of the demographics of the electorate at that time. They were great ideas, that were quite effective overall (with some speed bumps along the way) for about 2 and half centuries or so.
But eventually any society, even with all the guard rails our system has in place, will simply devolve into tribal authoritarianism. There are those who rule, and those who are ruled.
This country is not made up of rules and laws, and probably never has been, but instead is of pure political will, and has and probably always has been.
Either you have the conviction and desire to attain power, and then proceed to wield that power, or you will eventually be steamrolled by someone else who will happily wield power over you.
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 8:07 pm
10
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:54 pm to burger bearcat
When you have a corrupt populace, what good are laws? Just look at the lawfare ghouls and people like Decatur cheering on our now 6 year witch hunt
Our ignorant and corrupt citizens elect politicians with the same traits and that’s why we are in the pickle we are in
Our ignorant and corrupt citizens elect politicians with the same traits and that’s why we are in the pickle we are in
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:54 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
I realized many of these libertarian ideas were simply an unrealistic utopia.
Libertarianism, like communism, sounds great in theory but fails in practice.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:56 pm to burger bearcat
Self-governance cannot occur in a country of fat, welfare-addicted leeches who are more concerned with reality TV and social media likes than political and economic liberty.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:56 pm to TrueTiger
They’re both ideas for children with simplistic thinking.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:05 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
But at some point I realized many of these libertarian ideas were simply an unrealistic utopia.
As a hard-shell libertarian, I’m far from some starry-eyed dreamer who seeks some utopian political order. I simply believe the following words are as relevant today as the day they were written:
“....when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”
The only way to “unite” and find common ground with totalitarians is total subservience to their ideology. This country was indeed founded upon the natural right of the citizens “to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another.”
The Constitution never would have been ratified if the individual, sovereign States thought it was a compact into infinity. The biggest con in American History has been the lie that this nation was founded as a compact “indivisible” unto death.
“The Pledge of Allegiance” was written by Francis Bellamy, an avowed socialist. Look up the Bellamy Salute and see what you find:
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:10 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
But at some point I realized many of these libertarian ideas were simply an unrealistic utopia
Libertarians tend to be above average IQ. The problem is that they don't realize the rest of the population isn't. And broadly speaking they seem to misunderstand human nature.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:11 pm to Lou Pai
It was a simpler time here when we could just rag on libertarians and their silly little NAP
Gmorgan TYFYS
Gmorgan TYFYS
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 8:25 pm
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:11 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
The Constitution never would have been ratified if the individual, sovereign States thought it was a compact into infinity. The biggest con in American History has been the lie that this nation was founded as a compact “indivisible” unto death.
Which is why this country died in 1861.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:19 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
Libertarianism, like communism, sounds great in theory but fails in practice.
And continued subservience to the perpetual bipartisan reigning regime in the Potomac Swamp has produced what exactly?
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:21 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
Either you have the conviction and desire to attain power, and then proceed to wield that power, or you will eventually be steamrolled by someone else who will happily wield power over you.
I feel where you are coming from, but remember what Ben Franklin stated
"A Republic if you can keep it".
That whole sentence is built around you and your actions to keep it.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:22 pm to burger bearcat
I left the libertarian party when the chairman/president of Louisiana branch started posting 9/11 conspiracies
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:24 pm to Lou Pai
quote:
And broadly speaking they seem to misunderstand human nature.
Utter and complete baloney. It is a total understanding of human nature that animated the political sensibilities of the Anti-Federalists.
It may have taken over 200 years, but can anyone who genuinely supports the principles of limited government argue against Patrick Henry’s prescient warnings about the tyranny that necessarily will befall a powerful centralized state?
When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: liberty, sir, was then the primary object. But now, sir, the American spirit, assisted by the ropes and chains of consolidation, is about to convert this country into a powerful and mighty Empire. Would this constitute happiness, or secure liberty? Such a government is incompatible with the genius of Republicanism. There will be no checks, no real balances, in this government. What can avail your specious, imaginary balances, your rope-dancing, chain-rattling, ridiculous ideal checks and contrivances? Patrick Henry.
Again, if Liberty is to continue in this once great nation, it will arise in some form of nullification, subsidiary and even secession movements in the individual states. It is what it is.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:24 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
The Constitution never would have been ratified if the individual, sovereign States thought it was a compact into infinity. The biggest con in American History has been the lie that this nation was founded as a compact “indivisible” unto death.
Yea. It sometimes feels like much if the history I was taught has been completely whitewashed by Neo-Liberals and Neo-Cons.
Pre-Civil War, people were more connected to the state they hailed from rather than the Union we all pledge to currently.
The federal government needs to be completely gutted and decentralized. Power needs to become localized. There should be no large, looming, standing army. But a network of decentralized militias that may agree to cooperate in border defense and other defensive activities.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:26 pm to jcaz
quote:
started posting 9/11 conspiracies
After what you've seen the past 7 years, do you believe anything the federal security apparatus tells you? And is it that far fetched that our government would allow 9/11 to occur in exchange for bigger budgets and sweeping new powers?
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:28 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
The federal government needs to be completely gutted and decentralized. Power needs to become localized. There should be no large, looming, standing army. But a network of decentralized militias that may agree to cooperate in border defense and other defensive activities.
Industrial Revolution caused that ship to sail, bud.
Best I can offer you is some tribal, African shithole if you want local power.
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:38 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
Either you have the conviction and desire to attain power, and then proceed to wield that power
Think about the people you know that run for some city council seat or representative in some podunk district in rural Louisiana..
They usually have every intention of saving the world. Then they spend their entire time in office getting bothered by people at high-school football games, shaking strangers' hands at festivals, and fixing traffic tickets
Now think about the kind of person who suffers thru all that shut, and then says "I'd like to do that again. In fact, I'd like to reach an even higher office and do even more of it!"
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:43 pm to jcaz
quote:
9/11 conspiracies
What exactly? The infamous 28 pages of the official 9/11 inquiry— even in their heavily redacted state — reveal that the highest echelons of our nation’s national security apparatus sought to whitewash not only Saudi Arabia’s foreknowledge of the terror attacks, but likewise coverup the possibility that factions in our nation’s own intelligence agencies had foreknowledge of the 9/11 terror attacks.
Robert Mueller was the biggest obstacle for Sept. 11 families who wanted to sue Saudi Arabia….
Families of Sept. 11 victims have been on a 17-year-long quest to seek financial retribution from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which they claim funded the terrorist attack that took the lives of their loved ones. Throughout the process, their attempts at uncovering the truth about Saudi Arabia’s role in the deadliest terrorist attack in American history have been impeded by the FBI and its former director, Robert Mueller….
New York-based lawyer Jim Kreindler, representing the families of the Sept. 11 victims, said in an interview that Mueller and his successor, James Comey, engaged in a systematic cover-up of evidence that the Saudi government aided the terrorists who committed the Sept. 11 attacks.
Several people formerly associated with the investigation stated that Saudi Arabia was financially involved with the Sept. 11 attacks, including John Lehman, a Republican member of the 9/11 Commission, and former Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., who chaired the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at the time. Stephen K. Moore, the retired FBI agent who led the Sept. 11 probe in Los Angeles, also confirmed in an affidavit back in December 2017 that the Saudis played a significant role….
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:45 pm to Toomer Deplorable
A free group with little or no government would be wonderful.
The problem is that the tribe next door organizes then threatens and eventually overruns the free loosely organized group.
So, to counter and defend you have to organize and that means putting together a government with taxes, central authority, and laws. Those seeds eventually grow into a leviathan.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:47 pm to Toomer Deplorable
Holographic planes and thermite the night before
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