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re: Prosecutorial Misconduct Reform
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:35 am to Indefatigable
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:35 am to Indefatigable
quote:I'm not familiar with it. How were legal fees assessed? How much did she get assessed for the defendant's reputational harm and/or lost income?
Didn't the woman who sued LSU and its lawyers over fake sexual harassment claims get tagged with paying LSU and Les Miles' attorney fees less than a month ago?
1
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:38 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
How were legal fees assessed?
Typically the law firms invoices and clerk receipts, etc.
quote:
How much did she get assessed for the defendant's reputational harm and/or lost income?
I don't know that the defendants asked for any of this specifically. However, the plaintiff and her lawyer were sanctioned in addition to being saddled with the defendants attorney fees. Meaning that she has to pay them even more money to ostensibly cover the things that you describe.
They could have (and probably also did) ask for those things in a countersuit, but I do not know those details. I just know what I read in the local paper here over a month ago--not involved with the case.
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 11:41 am
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:But, but, but ...
Permit more expansive criminal liability for criminal violations by LEO/prosecutors.
... we already already have that remedy.
quote:Disbarred AND jailed, just like Mike Nifong.
Michael Morton was convicted of murder in 1987, spent over 24 years in prison, and exonerated through DNA and withholding of evidence in 2011 with help from the Innocence Project. In 2013 his prosecutor was convicted of withholding evidence, agreed to disbarment, and spent 4 days in jail.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:45 am to NC_Tigah
quote:The "loser" pays for the same things, regardless of which side loses. Plaintiffs aren't awarded money for their time sitting in court.
Interesting. So a LA medmal plaintiff pays medical specialists $10K-$30K+ for lost work time and reputational damage? Really?
And let's wargame your proposal...If you want the losing party to pay the attorney's fees of the winner, then successful plaintiffs will now be awarded attorney's fees on top of their damages, right? Surely you don't want it to cut only 1 way.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:59 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Sans countersuit, detail that claim
Motion for sanctions
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:59 am to NaturalBeam
quote:Certainly. ... that's how it works now. You are familiar with contingency fee basis, right? Or are you proposing we outlaw contingency practice, and commit personal injury law to time based compensation?
And let's wargame your proposal...If you want the losing party to pay the attorney's fees of the winner, then successful plaintiffs will now be awarded attorney's fees on top of their damages, right? Surely you don't want it to cut only 1 way.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Details please. What fees? How are amounts determined?quote:Motion for sanctions
should I be required to pay attorney fees, take time away from work, and suffer stress and reputational damage without remuneration?
---
you can get your fees back for a frivolous suit.
---
Sans countersuit, detail that claim
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:07 pm to Jax-Tiger
Any kind of tort or legal reform is basically useless unless you are willing to shred the constitution.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:08 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:That's not how it works now. Now, a successful plaintiff gets awarded their damages based on their case, and they pay 33-40% of it to their lawyer.
Certainly. ... that's how it works now.
But you want the unsuccessful plaintiff to have to pay the defense attorney's fees (on top of court costs, experts, and jury costs that they already pay for).
So in that case, you're advocating the successful plaintiff receive her award for damages PLUS her attorney's fees. As a plaintiff's lawyer, I'd love that trade off. I can't afford to try bad cases.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:10 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
that's how it works now.
Not really. Most cases do not include an award of attorney's fees. The general rule, at least in Louisiana and most other places, is that fees are not recoverable unless allowed by specific statute or contract.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:11 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
"Legitimately frivolous suits"
In the eyes of the legal community legitimately frivolous suits are nonexistent.
quote:
Juries can be very dumb indeed. That's how John Edwards made millions of bucks presenting bullshite cases.
Hence why I said legitimately frivolous. If you're going to claim every case that had a result you don't like is "frivolous", then the word has no meaning and neither does this discussion.
The jury returns in those Edwards cases shows they were, by definition, not frivolous.
quote:
Otherwise, why would an ambulance chaser take the case up?
Again, this is exactly why loser pays would be bad.
If you got sued by one of these guys and lost, would you want to pay the attorney's fees on top of the damages?
Ambulance chasers don't typically take cases without clear liability. That means in loser pays, they make more money.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Details please. What fees? How are amounts determined?
Depends on the judge. Many permit you to submit invoices to determine them.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:12 pm to NaturalBeam
quote:
So in that case, you're advocating the successful plaintiff receive her award for damages PLUS her attorney's fees. As a plaintiff's lawyer, I'd love that trade off. I can't afford to try bad cases.
Exactly
This would increase insurance costs dramatically. All the losses from suits would increase 25-40%
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Well when people say they want "loser pays" they are really only referring to when the plaintiff loses...
Again, this is exactly why loser pays would be bad.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:18 pm to NaturalBeam
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/23/24 at 11:29 am
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:20 pm to NaturalBeam
quote:But it is.
That's not how it works now
Sorry, who is paying the plaintiff attorney?
Because if you claim it is the plaintiff, it obviously calls to question the financial basis for contingency. All money originates from the defendant. Again, sans contingency-based practice, we could have a legit discussion here.
The risk in our tort system is uniquely and heavily skewed to the defendant
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:For lost wages d/t deposition, prep, and court?
Many permit you to submit invoices to determine them.
Really?
That is such an "interesting" claim, SFP.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:26 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
For lost wages d/t deposition, prep, and court?
Really?
Much of the time once its determined that fees are owed, the attorney's invoices will be submitted to the Court. Those invoices necessarily include prep, depositions, court appearances, etc.
I've already answered the question that you are getting at regarding the actual party/defendant. The defendant will need to move for sanctions (above/beyond atty fees and direct litigation costs) or assert their own claim (if legally available) for 'indirect' damages relating to lost wages, reputation, etc.
Help me understand what you are getting at or caught up on, because it seems clear to me.
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:27 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Because if you claim it is the plaintiff, it obviously calls to question the financial basis for contingency. All money originates from the defendant.
Contingencies are legal and legitimate.
quote:
Again, sans contingency-based practice, we could have a legit discussion here.
This issue has already come up. That's why courts could adopt the lodestar method instead, to replace contingencies from the equation.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 12:28 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
For lost wages d/t deposition, prep, and court?
I thought we were talking attorney's fees?
If you're hourly, you submit your....invoices. That's the easiest way to determine fees paid for attorney services.
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