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PoliBoard: Teach me why a flat tax is bad.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:03 pm
Here is my argument FOR. Looking for real responses. Not a troll thread this time.
I am going to use basic numbers to push my idea. The number of citizens in the United States is roughly 321 million. Let's say that the average income per citizen is 60k/yr (the poor and children are offset by the million/billionaires). This leave a generated revenue stream of 19.2Tr dollars. At a ten percent flat tax, this would leave an individual income tax revenue of 1.92Tr dollars.
Here is a graphical breakdown of FY2015 where the federal budget cost 3.8Tr.
The three biggest expenditures are: SS/Unemployement (1.275Tr), Healthcare (1.051Tr), and Military (600B).
The next graph is a breakdown of Federal Tax revenue by source for FY2015:
As you can see the debate lies in the 47% bucket (individual income tax). The other bucket includes FICA (33%) and CIT/other taxes for the other 20%.
Assuming we keep FICA and CIT/other taxes the same, we just need to figure out the difference in revenue from our current system to the one presented forth.
"The largest share of fiscal 2015's record-setting tax haul came from the individual income tax. That yielded the Treasury $1,540,802,000,000"
$3,248,723,000,000: Federal Taxes Set Record in FY 2015; $21,833 Per Worker; Feds Still Run $438.9B Deficit
As you can see the individual income tax collected in FY2015 was 1.54Tr dollars.
If the provided numbers at the beginning of the post were indeed to be proven true, then 1.92Tr dollars is greater than 1.54Tr dollars any day of the week.
What actually happens is that the government does not need to reduce anything. In fact, we have a 380B surplus we can use to either pay down debt or increase monies paid out to any of the buckets in our federal budget.
This is how I came to the thought that flat tax IS possible. Any opinions are appreciated.
Edit: I also figured a revenue @ median income level of 53k per person. This would gain 1.7Tr in individual taxes. Still higher than the 1.54Tr in today's economy.
Edit #2: I would like to figure out total money paid in payroll for 2015, but can't seem to find that information. It would help prove the initial numbers I presented.
I am going to use basic numbers to push my idea. The number of citizens in the United States is roughly 321 million. Let's say that the average income per citizen is 60k/yr (the poor and children are offset by the million/billionaires). This leave a generated revenue stream of 19.2Tr dollars. At a ten percent flat tax, this would leave an individual income tax revenue of 1.92Tr dollars.
Here is a graphical breakdown of FY2015 where the federal budget cost 3.8Tr.
The three biggest expenditures are: SS/Unemployement (1.275Tr), Healthcare (1.051Tr), and Military (600B).
The next graph is a breakdown of Federal Tax revenue by source for FY2015:
As you can see the debate lies in the 47% bucket (individual income tax). The other bucket includes FICA (33%) and CIT/other taxes for the other 20%.
Assuming we keep FICA and CIT/other taxes the same, we just need to figure out the difference in revenue from our current system to the one presented forth.
"The largest share of fiscal 2015's record-setting tax haul came from the individual income tax. That yielded the Treasury $1,540,802,000,000"
$3,248,723,000,000: Federal Taxes Set Record in FY 2015; $21,833 Per Worker; Feds Still Run $438.9B Deficit
As you can see the individual income tax collected in FY2015 was 1.54Tr dollars.
If the provided numbers at the beginning of the post were indeed to be proven true, then 1.92Tr dollars is greater than 1.54Tr dollars any day of the week.
What actually happens is that the government does not need to reduce anything. In fact, we have a 380B surplus we can use to either pay down debt or increase monies paid out to any of the buckets in our federal budget.
This is how I came to the thought that flat tax IS possible. Any opinions are appreciated.
Edit: I also figured a revenue @ median income level of 53k per person. This would gain 1.7Tr in individual taxes. Still higher than the 1.54Tr in today's economy.
Edit #2: I would like to figure out total money paid in payroll for 2015, but can't seem to find that information. It would help prove the initial numbers I presented.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:07 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
income per citizen is 60k/yr
In 2016 it was $56,516 per household, you are already starting way off probably. Did not read the rest, probably all wrong.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:07 pm to 50_Tiger
We really need a consumption tax backed by a smaller flat tax.
Exemptions for basic goods should be included.
Exemptions for basic goods should be included.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:08 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
PoliBoard: Teach me why a flat tax is bad.
What is income?
/end thread
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:09 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
In 2016 it was $56,516 per household, you are already starting way off probably. Did not read the rest, probably all wrong.
So you make a drive by post and offer no substance. Thanks bud.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:10 pm to 50_Tiger
Flat tax is an improvement.
FairTax is better.
I don't want to have to do anything on April 15th that amounts to working for the government for free.
FairTax is better.
I don't want to have to do anything on April 15th that amounts to working for the government for free.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:10 pm to kingbob
quote:
What is income?
/end thread
Thanks for the helpful post.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:11 pm to TrueTiger
A flat tax would make the IRS reduce in size by a good bit.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:12 pm to 50_Tiger
Well, first:
We already know the average income per household in the country is $56,516, found here.
Total number of households in the country is 125.82 million, as found here.
That means a total income of 7.1 Trillion. 10% of that is 710 billion, putting the country at a not-insignificant 3.1 trillion dollar debt with your plan.
For a 10% flat tax to work, you would have to cut expenditures by 81.4%.
You could abolish the military AND medicare and still be short by 1.5 trillion dollars.
quote:
Let's say that the average income per citizen is 60k/yr (the poor and children are offset by the million/billionaires). This leave a generated revenue stream of 19.2Tr dollars. At a ten percent flat tax, this would leave an individual income tax revenue of 1.92Tr dollars.
We already know the average income per household in the country is $56,516, found here.
Total number of households in the country is 125.82 million, as found here.
That means a total income of 7.1 Trillion. 10% of that is 710 billion, putting the country at a not-insignificant 3.1 trillion dollar debt with your plan.
For a 10% flat tax to work, you would have to cut expenditures by 81.4%.
You could abolish the military AND medicare and still be short by 1.5 trillion dollars.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:12 pm to 50_Tiger
I'd be unemployed. No thanks. ;)
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:13 pm to bayouboo
quote:
We really need a consumption tax backed by a smaller flat tax.
Exemptions for basic goods should be included.
Can you provide an example?
Are you talking about taxes on just plain goods and services period rendered by individual every year? I could live with that.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:13 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
So you make a drive by post and offer no substance
I did, your numbers are more than likely off. There is a big difference from $60k/individual and $56k/household.
Why read the rest when you picked some random number to start with.
I think flat tax and consumption tax is the way to go, BTW.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:13 pm to 50_Tiger
Yes. They would still be needed to audit the sales receipts of businesses.
But they would leave John Q. Public alone.
But they would leave John Q. Public alone.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:14 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
flat tax
Both racist and disproportionately unfair to the poor.
Bottom line only the wealthiest 1% should pay anything and everyone else should just get free stuff.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:15 pm to 50_Tiger
Because the free loaders would actually have to pay something.
We can't have that.
We can't have that.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:15 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Thanks for the helpful post.
No seriously, that is the problem for any income taxing regime. Because income is such a nebulous term that is difficult to quantify and track that it makes income taxes extremely time intensive to pay and labor intensive to enforce. That's why sales taxes and property taxes are both superior. Sales are automatic every time you buy something. Property is based off of a predictable assessment. Income is nebulous and vague, causing many people who are acting in good faith to get caught in the dragnet and become criminals simply by not realizing that x should have been counted with y at z date instead of w date.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:17 pm to 50_Tiger
Need to slash SS and Medicare spending at least in half
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:17 pm to skrayper
quote:
We already know the average income per household in the country is $56,516, found here.
Total number of households in the country is 125.82 million, as found here.
That means a total income of 7.1 Trillion. 10% of that is 710 billion, putting the country at a not-insignificant 3.1 trillion dollar debt with your plan.
For a 10% flat tax to work, you would have to cut expenditures by 81.4%.
You could abolish the military AND medicare and still be short by 1.5 trillion dollars.
Okay so for instance 47% of revenue stream is made of individual income tax. 47% of 3.8Tr is 1.786Tr.
We would need to reduce the budget by 1Tr using the information you provided.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:18 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
In 2016 it was $56,516 per household, you are already starting way off probably. Did not read the rest, probably all wrong.
flat ok if
1. tied to estate tax, i.e. death tax.
2. include entire income streams in socialist security 7.5% like ordinary shlubs pay and I am for it.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 12:19 pm to narddogg81
quote:
Need to slash SS and Medicare spending at least in half
If you do both you gain the 1Tr I alluded to. This could work actually.
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