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Started By
Message
re: Mexican judge denies motion to release Marine.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:56 am to SpidermanTUba
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:56 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
That's a crime in Mexico.
it's a crime in America to cross the border illegally....but you don't seem to give a shite about that.
1
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:57 am to SpidermanTUba
Double Tap.
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 10:01 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:57 am to SpidermanTUba
triple Tap?
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 9:59 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:02 am to MrCarton
quote:
Much of the weaponry and ammo used by cartels do have a US origin for one reason or another. Likely many of these weapons were officially provided directly to the Mexican government who then lost control of them, but we know that at least 4,000 of them were part of Fast and Furious™ and even more likely cartels use their money and US based terrorist connections to acquire guns and ammo legally and transport them to Mexico. Not unlike what this Andrew Tahmoorsi guy is accused of.
Just read a figure in Time that of the 100,000 weapons seized by the Mexican government between 2007 and 2012, nearly 70,000 originated in the US.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:07 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
SpidermanTUba
I bet you were thrilled to get Bergdal back, but you still implore people to quit trying to get an American citizen out of prison, almost like it's a mission. Is the fact that there are more there really your reason for not worrying about this one? We deport illegal children all the time, why are you so worried about sending this round back?
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:17 am to Navytiger74
quote:
Just read a figure in Time that of the 100,000 weapons seized by the Mexican government between 2007 and 2012, nearly 70,000 originated in the US.
That sounds about right. It is a crazy game between the US and Mexico. The serve our narcotics and marijuana black market and we serve their firearms and ammo black market. Each industry feeds on the other
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:00 am to Navytiger74
quote:
Believe it or not, the Mexican government heaps a hefty amount of blame on the US for its problems with the cartels--both for buying their drugs, and (you guessed it) for helping to keep them well supplied with arms.
Maybe "Fast and Furious" is the reason that he is being held and the reason our state dept is powerless to negotiate his return
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:04 am to roygu
quote:
Maybe "Fast and Furious" is the reason that he is being held and the reason our state dept is powerless to negotiate his return
Their consternation pre-dates and supercedes the Fast and the Furious and its predecessor programs. About 70% of the cartel's weapons are US spec. The Fast and the Furious has so far been found responsible for about 4,000 (assuming McCarton's info is good).
I'm sure F&F doesn't help anything, though.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:17 am to SpidermanTUba
"Why just him? What about the other Americans rotting in Mexican prisons for pretty much the exact same thing?"
The "same" thing? DOS should work to secure faster/more favorable resolutions, and from what I am told by a former State Deparment employee, this is relatively common, even in cases that don't make the news.
"Pretty much" the same thing? Parituclar facts and circumstances matter. I would want DOS to take the facts of each case into account.
The "same" thing? DOS should work to secure faster/more favorable resolutions, and from what I am told by a former State Deparment employee, this is relatively common, even in cases that don't make the news.
"Pretty much" the same thing? Parituclar facts and circumstances matter. I would want DOS to take the facts of each case into account.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:19 am to Choctaw
quote:
it's a crime in America to cross the border illegally....but you don't seem to give a shite about that.
and?
What exactly does this have to do with the moron who is now in a mexican jail because he was dumb enough to transport firearms across the Mexican border.
Not one damn thing.
Except opportunity for you to bitch about Obama.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:20 am to roygu
quote:
Maybe "Fast and Furious" is the reason that he is being held and the reason our state dept is powerless to negotiate his return
I agree with Navytiger74. It's more than likely part of the equation. Mexico's hands are dirty as well. It's politics. And it's time to up the ante IMO.
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 11:28 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:29 am to Porky
Mexico gave up its sovereignty through corruption, drug cartels, and waves of illegals crossing our border. With all the grief that shithole of a country has given us, we should not tolerate them imprisoning one of our citizens, especially for something that is protected by our Bill of Rights.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:41 am to Navytiger74
quote:
assuming McCarton's info is good
I won't claim 100% accuracy, but I doubt anyone will ever have the real numbers.
This is wikis take on the gunwalking scandal]
F and F was responsible for the loss of more than between 1200-1700 guns in just one operation. There were several major operations prior to FF in which guns were lost and gunwalking has been a operational tactic of the ATF for quite some time.
The issue is that if no probable cause for arrest is found, the ATF has to track and reclaim each weapon at the end of each investigation in order to ensure that it doesn't eventually end up in Mexico. In other words, they could never do that. From reading what the ATF has admitted to, I would estimate that conservatively around 4,000 weapons have gone to Mexican criminals. I think it higher estimates could be justified.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:41 am to TigersforEver
quote:
Mexico gave up its sovereignty through corruption, drug cartels, and waves of illegals crossing our border. With all the grief that shithole of a country has given us, we should not tolerate them imprisoning one of our citizens, especially for something that is protected by our Bill of Rights.
Bill of Rights don't matter in Mexico. Money is what matters to them and we should cut their "aid" IMO.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:44 am to Porky
quote:
Money is what matters to them and we should cut their "aid" IMO.
Absolutely agreed. We try to help their pitiful corrupt asses and this is how they repay us?
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:46 am to TigersforEver
quote:
Mexico gave up its sovereignty through corruption, drug cartels, and waves of illegals crossing our border. With all the grief that shithole of a country has given us, we should not tolerate them imprisoning one of our citizens, especially for something that is protected by our Bill of Rights.
I agree that the USGOV should throw its weight around for the benefit of its citizens in foreign countries. In many cases State Department does exactly that. There is only so much leverage in the world though, and even the mighty United States loses its leverage when ATF gunwalker programs become public knowledge.
I think it is likely that cartel agents knew of this program well before it became public knowledge considering that over 25% of the weapons the ATF claimed they lost control of ended up being recovered at crime scenes. That is too common an occurrence for me to accept as coincidental, especially considering that Cartels deal in firepower these days.
Once the story became public the Mexican Government gained some leverage over the US in the subject of firearms.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 11:49 am to MrCarton
quote:
F and F was responsible for the loss of more than between 1200-1700 guns in just one operation. There were several major operations prior to FF in which guns were lost and gunwalking has been a operational tactic of the ATF for quite some time.
The issue is that if no probable cause for arrest is found, the ATF has to track and reclaim each weapon at the end of each investigation in order to ensure that it doesn't eventually end up in Mexico. In other words, they could never do that. From reading what the ATF has admitted to, I would estimate that conservatively around 4,000 weapons have gone to Mexican criminals. I think it higher estimates could be justified.
Fast and Furious was really stupid on our part.
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 11:56 am
Posted on 7/10/14 at 12:58 pm to TigersforEver
quote:
Mexico gave up its sovereignty through corruption, drug cartels, and waves of illegals crossing our border. With all the grief that shithole of a country has given us, we should not tolerate them imprisoning one of our citizens, especially for something that is protected by our Bill of Rights.
I agree Mexico can't blame us for shite. It's not like they had a serene country before our guns just happened to walk over there and create a drug empire government.
That said, our BOR is irrelevant in Mexico. Given this situation, I think it makes sense to put the pressure on Mexico, especially as they're a worthless country whose problems cause us problems, but the idea that Obama should be starting a war is dumb.
I'm a Fox News watcher, but this is Fox's fault. People see Megyn Kelly get all huffy about this story and they mistakenly begin to think this is some proxy for a culture war.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 2:14 pm to UPT
quote:
quote:
Given the facts as I understand, this is absolutely appropriate time for the US government, likely via the Department of State to engage in negotiations
I believe that they are, they just aren't providing updates on the hour to Greta Van Susteren.
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