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Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:32 am to Placebeaux
quote:
Why should this country fund Israel? They are siting on trillions of cubic feet of natural gas.
That's fine, but how do your propose they get it to market (assuming you're talking about the Leviathan gas field)?
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:33 am to Champagne
Im sure they are reading this right now
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:36 am to GumboPot
Pipeline it. Via Cyprus and Greece.
But that's not the plan. They are going through turkey
But that's not the plan. They are going through turkey
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 9:40 am
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:37 am to GumboPot
quote:
You're not wrong. Jew hate is spreading and spreading quick.
You sound like a liberal democrat calling everyone racist that doesn't hold your point of view.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:37 am to Navytiger74
quote:
Sure.
OK, then in that case, your comments make no sense.
The statement is conclusory. Can you cite some support for it?
The question makes no sense. I don't understand what you mean by "America"?
If you mean the United States of America, then, the answer is "no".
This part of your post makes sense.
quote:
I personally know many pro-Israel "Zionist" Jews who are still capable of being critical of the Israeli government while not considering themselves anti-Israel. I'm strongly pro-Israel and I have serious reservations about their current tack.
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 9:42 am
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:42 am to Champagne
I think a lot of jews are fiscally liberal. They believe in big government and they believe in well fair.
I the far left is becoming more and more hostile to jews. It starts as anti-Zionism, but the far left aren't exactly rational people.
That being said the far right isn't always jew friendly either.
I think the current Dem leadership is the least Israel friendly since Carter.
I the far left is becoming more and more hostile to jews. It starts as anti-Zionism, but the far left aren't exactly rational people.
That being said the far right isn't always jew friendly either.
I think the current Dem leadership is the least Israel friendly since Carter.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:45 am to Champagne
quote:
OK, then in that case, your comments make no sense.
What's difficult to follow? One can criticize a government's policies and current activities (let's hypothetically say Israel's in this case) without being anti-that nation. Since American Jews themselves don't seem slavishly duty-bound to support Israeli policies no matter what, they probably aren't all that upset when American non-Jews are respectfully critical. Disagreeing with government policy does not equal hating a nation. As I wrote, you guys complain about our government more than everyone in this nation (combined) complains about Israel's government. Aren't you concerned that we're going to begin to suspect that you hate America the same way everyone who criticizes Netanyahu apparently hates Israel?
quote:
people might conclude that you are stupid.
Let me worry about that. Sweep up around your own porch.
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:45 am to GumboPot
quote:
Get this, congress overwhelmingly passes funding for Israel's Iron Dome. So overwhelmingly that it's veto proof. Now, if the Iron Dome funding project were funded with a simple majority Obama would veto it in a second. But since it's veto proof Obama will either sign the bill or let it sit and it will automatically become law after 30 or so days. The point is, Obama can say he's for the state of Israel by claiming support for the Iron Dome when it is clear as day he hates Israel but the American Jew will continue to donate to the party that wants to see them destroyed. Stockholm Syndrome is real.
You're out of your freakin' mind if you think that Obama would veto some pro-Israel arms bill if he could. I wish he would, but unfortunately, Obama has been more in lockstep with Israel than any president in American history. Don't for one minute think that just because despises Netanyahu, who not coincidentally is one of the most despised heads of state on the planet, that he's out to hurt Israel. Just last week Obama resupplied the IDF weapons supply so that it could continue killing innocent Gazans. If Obama really wanted to bring Israel to its knees, there are plenty things he could have done that Congress would have been powerless to stop, not the least of which is withholding his veto at the U.N. Security Council to protect Israel.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:47 am to EthanL
quote:
Why not just come out and say what you think? Tell them based on your twisted logic, that all Jews are at risk of another genocidal attempt on their ethnicity, this time by America.
Very sad, obscene, and insensitive statement to make. Sow your seeds of hate and discord elsewhere.
Yeah, they can't watch TV and see for themselves. Nancy Pelosi calling Hamas a humanitarian organization, Kerry and Obama giving Netanyahu the back of their hand at every opportunity.
There is not a smidgen of evidence that the OP is correct.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:49 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I think the current Dem leadership is the least Israel friendly since Carter.
I think it's fair to say that Obama is perhaps among the least "friendly" toward Israel of any president. They aren't very good allies, but I'll stand by the fact that he could do more to influence them if he made a better effort to not appear to hold them and radical Palistinian factions on equal footing.
It doesn't help that he and Netanyahu personally hate each other.
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:55 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I think the current Dem leadership is the least Israel friendly since Carter.
Obama is hostile to Bibi and his coalition, which is the most extreme and racist government in the history of Israel, but he's still very friendly to Israel. FYI, every administration, Democrat and Republican, has had problems getting along with Likud. If Obama treated Bibi like Reagan treated Begin, he'd be impeached.
Also, I don't understand how you can say that Carter was hostile to Israel when he's responsible for securing an Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty, thus eliminating the biggest existential threat to Israel's existence.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 9:59 am to Navytiger74
quote:
What's difficult to follow? One can criticize a government's policies and current activities (let's hypothetically say Israel's in this case) without being anti-that nation. Since American Jews themselves don't seem slavishly duty-bound to support Israeli policies no matter what, they probably aren't all that upset when American non-Jews are respectfully critical. Disagreeing with government policy does not equal hating a nation. As I wrote, you guys complain about our government more than everyone in this nation (combined) complains about Israel's government. Aren't you concerned that we're going to begin to suspect that you hate America the same way everyone who criticizes Netanyahu apparently hates Israel?
Oh, OK, thanks for clarifying.
If American Jews collectively believe that this new Democrat movement is grounded completely in an honest critique of some Israeli national policy, then, they should not feel compelled to change their party affiliation for that reason alone.
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 10:04 am
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:01 am to trackfan
quote:
he's out to hurt Israel
We are getting WAY off topic here, but, IMHO, Obama is not " out to hurt Israel ".
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:08 am to Champagne
I guess some people are not sophisticated enough that you can be socially liberal, economically liberal, and hawkish in defense and foreign policy.
Whether I believe in abortion freedom to choose, gun control, higher taxes on the rich or Universal health care, does not effect at all my feelings that Israel needs to defend herself against terrorists.
Can i still be probably one of your only American Jewish friends?
Whether I believe in abortion freedom to choose, gun control, higher taxes on the rich or Universal health care, does not effect at all my feelings that Israel needs to defend herself against terrorists.
Can i still be probably one of your only American Jewish friends?
This post was edited on 8/5/14 at 10:09 am
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:09 am to Navytiger74
quote:
I think it's fair to say that Obama is perhaps among the least "friendly" toward Israel of any president.
The least friendly President in history is Ike and it isn't even close. #2 is Bush 41 who cut off the purse strings when Yitzhak Shamir, another Likudnik, defied his order to stop building settlements.
quote:
They aren't very good allies, but I'll stand by the fact that he could do more to influence them if he made a better effort to not appear to hold them and radical Palistinian factions on equal footing.
1) I don't know what you mean by "radical Palestinian factions" but Likud is every bit as extreme, both in its charter and in its pronounced statements, as Hamas is.
2) How can expect Obama or anyone else to be an effective mediator if he doesn't take an evenhanded approach to the two negotiating parties?
quote:
It doesn't help that he and Netanyahu personally hate each other.
Is there any world leader who likes Netanyahu?
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:18 am to trackfan
quote:
The least friendly President in history is Ike and it isn't even close. #2 is Bush 41 who cut off the purse strings when Yitzhak Shamir, another Likudnik, defied his order to stop building settlements.
I guess I should have drawn a distinction between actions and personal sympathies as evidenced by public and private statements. I don't think Obama's actions WRT Israel are any different from any other president.
quote:
1) I don't know what you mean by "radical Palestinian factions" but Likud is every bit as extreme, both in its charter and in its pronounced statements, as Hamas is.
Radical factions include Hamas and its sympathizers. Likud is heavy-handed and generally unsympathetic, but they don't target civilians and haven't traditionally carried out attacks with absolutely no sense of discrimination.
quote:
2) How can expect Obama or anyone else to be an effective mediator if he doesn't take an evenhanded approach to the two negotiating parties?
He probably can't effectively mediate no matter what path he takes. He can only get so tough on Israel without alianating some domestic support.
quote:
Is there any world leader who likes Netanyahu?
No. All world leaders are fairly egotistical, and it's not like the West is currently on a run of great leadership--but Bibi is a snake. When the French characterize you as smarmy and dishonest, you have a problem.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:22 am to Navytiger74
what i find interesing is the whole, you are anti-isreal, you hate the jew lines is its freakishly similiar to some obama supporters that say the same thing. Oh, you don't like obama's policies, RACIST.
its funny how that works.
BTW - a good chunk of my family is jewish. Technically I am jewish but have never identified as jewish. My whole family, especially the joos, vote democrat. And are strong supporters of isreal.
its funny how that works.
BTW - a good chunk of my family is jewish. Technically I am jewish but have never identified as jewish. My whole family, especially the joos, vote democrat. And are strong supporters of isreal.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:28 am to NoNameNeeded
quote:
So, you basically just confessed to seeing America as a vassal, or more like a personal defense colony for a non-national interest.
You live up to the stereotypes and accusations. Oh, and good luck down the road in this country, because a lot of bridges are burning fast on you and the masses are already gathering on the collective populist left.
i do not support isreal, I should have been clear. I can't stand what they are doing and I think zionism is shite.
Posted on 8/5/14 at 10:59 am to Navytiger74
quote:
I guess I should have drawn a distinction between actions and personal sympathies as evidenced by public and private statements. I don't think Obama's actions WRT Israel are any different from any other president.
From the Jewish Virtual Library:
The two Presidents considered anti-Israel, Dwight Eisenhower and George Bush, both saw the Jewish state as just another country. Bush's Secretary of State, James Baker, viewed the Arab-Israeli conflict as no different from a management-labor dispute, so he saw no need to be especially sensitive to Israel's concerns. Bush demonstrated that a President openly critical of Israel could affect the quality of the relationship. Bush also set the negative precedent of openly interfering in an Israeli election, making no secret of his contempt for Yitzhak Shamir, and desire to see Yitzhak Rabin elected Prime Minister.
LINK
quote:
Radical factions include Hamas and its sympathizers. Likud is heavy-handed and generally unsympathetic, but they don't target civilians and haven't traditionally carried out attacks with absolutely no sense of discrimination.
You're wrong here. The IDF, under both Sharon and Netanyahu, has made it a practice to not only bomb indiscriminately, but also in some instances to target civilians. The reason why Obama is coming down so hard on Netanyahu during this conflict because the evidence is so overwhelming that the U.N. shelters are being deliberately targeted. Israel was notified 33 times of the GPS coordinates of one of the shelters and 17 times about another, and the U.N. insists that there were no Hamas soldiers operating in or near the shelters. Why do you think so many folks from the Israeli defense and security establishment are willing to call out Bibi on this issue? In the past, why do you think Israeli generals have been willing to go on the record and state that Sharon was no better then Hamas? By the way, are you familiar with the findings of the Kahan Commisssion?
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