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Started By
Message
re: Marco Rubio on Net Neutrality: ‘This Is a Solution in Search of a Problem’
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:16 am to olddawg26
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:16 am to olddawg26
quote:
I already have received 10X the solicitor calls since my damn info got sold. Y'all would absolutely hate not having net neutrality.
Your info got sold? By who?
Do you use Google? Facebook? Congrats. Your shite was sold a long, long time ago.
But I guess those guys get a pass because they're "good" companies, not like those big mean ISPs!!!
0
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:20 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Taxing Authority
You're fighting the good fight man, but these NN zealots are true believers. No amount of logic will sway their religious conviction that Title II is the only way.
I will give Google and crew credit. They did one helluva good marketing campaign (and buying off politicians campaign).
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:21 am to olddawg26
quote:How's that wonderful FCC Do Not Call List over federally regulated telephone system working for you?
I already have received 10X the solicitor calls since my damn info got sold.
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 9:22 am
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:24 am to notsince98
quote:
Marco finally gets something right.
Marco lacks any understanding of the issue just like most people against Net Neutrality laws.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:24 am to SG_Geaux
quote:
Marco lacks any understanding of the issue just like most people against Net Neutrality laws.
See, I love this response by you folks.
"If you don't agree with me, you don't understand. Because net neutrality. And things."
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:35 am to Centinel
(no message)
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:36 am to Centinel
quote:
See, I love this response by you folks.
"If you don't agree with me, you don't understand. Because net neutrality. And things."
But, but, but muh Reddit said it's bad!!
Posted on 7/13/17 at 9:38 am to Centinel
quote:
No amount of logic will sway their religious conviction that Title II is the only way.
We can speculate about what the best option is till we are blue in the face. But the only thing on the table right now is Title II or full unregulated internet. With the former being the better option.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:03 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
That's an indicator that the delivery of your content has tangible economic value. Value, the deliverer is banned for charging for.
quote:This is always your argument, as if the ISPs have to provide services for free. They get paid for their services. Always have, always will. What you want is for them to be able to charge the sender and the receiver for the same thing. This is like if I were to send a package, and the shipper and I agree on a price for the service. I hold up my end of the deal and pay them, and their end is to deliver the package. That's their fricking job. But then they arrive at the destination and see that the receiver is doing quite well, and they open my package to see that what is inside is quite valuable, they then decide they need more money than the agreed upon amount.
Nope. It's a "market" where some participants provide value to others for free by mandate. A "free market" doesn't mean some people are forced to work for no pay.
That's what you want ISPs to have the power to do, and it's fricked up.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:21 am to SG_Geaux
quote:
Marco lacks any understanding of the issue just like most people against Net Neutrality laws.
yep
its getting old trying to educate these people on NN. They hate it bc Obama was for it. They lack very basic understanding on how the internet works.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:22 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
They lack very basic understanding on how the internet works.
Oh I think I know a thing or two about the ole internet
And NN is a bad idea.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:29 am to Korkstand
quote:Yes. I'm consistent.
This is always your argument
quote:They don't. Netflix traffic has far more economic value than Ted Smith's Krackpot Konspiracy Blog. By definition NN demands that the ISP's pricing does NOT reflect that difference in value.
as if the ISPs have to provide services for free. They get paid for their services.
quote:Not exactly. In most cases they aren't the same provider. And both ends of the transaction have value. One is access and one is delivery.
What you want is for them to be able to charge the sender and the receiver for the same thing.
Why does Walmart get a markup? In most cases the products on their shelves are there because the vendor paid for the shelf space. Shouldn't they deliver Kraft mac-and-cheese for the same price they pay for it, since Kraft already paid to put it on the shelf?
Of course not-- because delivering a product to a customer has value. Amazon does the same thing. And they charge for it (both seller and buyer) only without even providing the shelf space in many cases.
quote:We'll have to disagree. I think if you deliver of something of value, you should have the opportunity to be paid for that.
That's what you want ISPs to have the power to do, and it's fricked up.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:30 am to Centinel
quote:
Oh I think I know a thing or two about the ole internet
Well I'm an IT professional.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:31 am to Centinel
I recommend you folks who's depth of research revolves around Reddit posts pick these two books up to start:
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:32 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Well I'm an IT professional.
So am I
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:34 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Isn't it curious that all the leftists and liberals who try to shut down free expression except for what they narrowly define as acceptable all want NN? Ponder on that...
I'm not sure it's possible to fit more fallacies in a single paragraph
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:46 am to Centinel
quote:
So am I
Then you should be against ISPs prioritizing traffic, data caps, local monopolies, and crappy cable infrastructure.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 11:53 am to SG_Geaux
quote:Absolutely not true. Liddle Marco FULLY realizes what the issue is, but the fact is, he is bought and paid for and his stance is predicated on the whims and desires of those who will reward him greatly.
Marco lacks any understanding of the issue just like most people against Net Neutrality laws.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 12:20 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:Consistently wrong isn't something to be proud of.
Yes. I'm consistent.
quote:
They don't.
Pretty sure I send my ISP money every month. Where does it go? quote:Why should the ISPs pricing reflect that difference in value? Should FedEx charge me more for shipping a pound of gold vs. a brick? Better yet, should FedEx open my fricking package to decide what to charge me? And then decide whether to also charge the receiver based on what it is I'm sending?
Netflix traffic has far more economic value than Ted Smith's Krackpot Konspiracy Blog. By definition NN demands that the ISP's pricing does NOT reflect that difference in value.
quote:Yeah, I know how the shite works. I pay on my end, Netflix pays on their end. Everybody gets paid for their services. So why the frick are you suggesting that Netflix should have to pay to "load" AND "offload" the data, when I'm already paying my ISP to offload it?
Not exactly. In most cases they aren't the same provider. And both ends of the transaction have value. One is access and one is delivery.
quote:Why are you asking silly questions?
Why does Walmart get a markup?
quote:Maybe they do? Maybe Walmart sells Kraft mac-and-cheese below cost? Who fricking cares? How is this relevant?
In most cases the products on their shelves are there because the vendor paid for the shelf space. Shouldn't they deliver Kraft mac-and-cheese for the same price they pay for it, since Kraft already paid to put it on the shelf?
An ISP isn't a storefront like Walmart. An ISP is the road that takes you to the storefront. My ISP has a toll booth in my driveway, and Walmart's ISP has a toll booth in their parking lot. That's fine. I pay for access to the road, and Walmart pays for access to customers. Walmart absorbs the cost of their toll booth and passes those on to consumers. That's fine. I pay my ISP to get on the road, I get to Walmart and pay the prices offered for their products. That's all fine. But what's NOT fine is if I get back home with my groceries, my ISP inspects my car and charges me extra fees for the things I bought at Walmart. Or, possibly worse, if my ISP goes to Walmart to extract the money from them for the things I already bought.
So tell me, what would you call it if there was someone who inspected the things you buy, and then that person goes to the suppliers of these things and demanded fees in exchange for allowing you to continue buying from these suppliers? You would probably call it extortion.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 12:35 pm to Korkstand
quote:Your presumption of being "wrong" is your own issue.
Consistently wrong isn't something to be proud of.
quote:You're paying your ISP different rates for Netflix and Billy Bob's Konsipracy Blog? I thought that was illegal.
Pretty sure I send my ISP money every month. Where does it go?
quote:
Why should the ISPs pricing reflect that difference in value?
Because it's the basis of a free market. quote:If customers are willing to pay for it... sure. Why not?
Should FedEx charge me more for shipping a pound of gold vs. a brick?
quote:Ok. Stop paying Netflix and see if you can still offload their content. Stop paying your ISP and see if you can offload their content. Both are part of the delivery of the content. One gets paid for it. The other does not.
So why the frick are you suggesting that Netflix should have to pay to "load" AND "offload" the data, when I'm already paying my ISP to offload it?
quote:
Why are you asking silly questions?
Simply asking why it's wrong for ISPs to use the same business model Walmart (and almost every other retailer) use. quote:Let's run with this toll booth analogy. Say you owned a toll road. One customer makes $10,000,000 per year in profit, and floods the road with delivery vehicles to the point you have to add lanes to keep the road passable. And there's Tommy, who owns a single motorcycle and only travels the road to visit his grandma once a month. Would you charge both customers the exact same toll? Does your road have the same economic value to the delivery company's customers as it does to grandma?
An ISP is the road that takes you to the storefront. My ISP has a toll booth in my driveway, and Walmart's ISP has a toll booth in their parking lot. That's fine.
quote:Walmarks knows exactly what you buy. If you think ISPs don't log their traffic. I don't know what to say.
So tell me, what would you call it if there was someone who inspected the things you buy
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 12:36 pm
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