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re: Is one major cause of wealth disparity a poor rate of return on social security?
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:39 am to Hog on the Hill
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:39 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
It's wasteful for the majority of SS money to be sitting in low yield bonds.
Well - the intent of that part of the process is clear when you think about it - U.S. Treasury has a built in, forced market for their bonds - bonds that are then used to fund the government at artificially low rates. The OASDI taxes are stovepiped directly into the general fund.
Take that forced market away from them, and borrowing becomes prohibitively expensive - and quite quickly.
You guys don't think it was a coincidence that they started doing this, and within a decade we were trillions in debt did you? We couldn't afford debt service on these trillions and trillions (effectively enough singles to make stacks to the MOON - 4 to 5 times) without this artificially low market.
Somebody's got to win - somebody's got to lose - when you don't have a choice in something (i.e. OASDI) - typically, you lose.
0
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:41 am to Layabout
quote:Plot them out. Let's see the "sense".
the figures make a lot more sense.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:42 am to Ace Midnight
quote:Uh oh.
Are you going to uncap benefits?
That is not playing fair at all.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:43 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Except that statement does not hold in a world market, even if the return was applied to the entire US.
Okay. That makes sense.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 10:38 am to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
Why is their a cap on social security tax?
Because the cap on the tax paid is also a cap on maximum benefits received. If you remove the cap on the tax then the benefits received will increase which does nothing for social security. While, if you remove the tax cap but leave the benefit cap in place you just turned social security into the largest welfare program in the country.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:05 am to NC_Tigah
Social Security is not an investment portfolio. It is insurance.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:14 am to NC_Tigah
Wages have been out-paced by inflation since 1970. The purchasing power of the working class has consequently gotten smaller. When you have less disposable income, you have less for investment.
Also since 1970 productivity has outpaced wage growth. That disparity goes to the owners of the means of production which rarely include the workers.
Also since 1970 productivity has outpaced wage growth. That disparity goes to the owners of the means of production which rarely include the workers.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:28 am to JEAUXBLEAUX
Jeauxbleaux, payroll taxes are capped because benefits are capped. It would be completely unfair to tax all income, yet keep benefits capped.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:37 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Wild tchoupitoulas, wages and productivity are not keeping up with each other, simply because there has been a growth in fringe benefits since 1970. Fringe benefits take the place of a part of the wage level. So, if there was not such an increase in the practice of businesses providing benefits, wages would probably match the productivity. Instead, that increase in productivity has led to an increase in fringe benefits
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:39 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
there has been a growth in fringe benefits since 1970
You mean like pensions?
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:41 am to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
All income needs to be taxed and keep the program going for all Americans.
That would make SS a welfare program. Current recipients dispute its status as welfare since they paid into it.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 11:42 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Pensions, health insurance, daycare for children, even. Hell my last company paid for my gasoline. In fact, there are now cafeteria style plans because of such a wide choice of different benefits to choose from.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:03 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:LOL. You are so predictable.
Why is their a cap on social security tax? All income needs to be taxed and keep the program going for all Americans.
There's also a cap on what you get out. Of course, you'd like to raise the cap on what one puts in but keep the other cap.
You're amusingly stupid sometimes.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:07 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Thats absurd. You pay the tax on all income so that all Americans are covered. You may pay in 5 and get 7 or vice versa.
Just another way high income is sheltered. I guess rich people make laws to benefit themselves.
Just another way high income is sheltered. I guess rich people make laws to benefit themselves.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:10 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
You still don't understand the ratio. With the cap currently in place, rich people pay in waaaaay more money than they get out when they retire. You simply want them to pay waaaaay more and then multiplied by 1,000. That's welfare.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:14 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Pensions, health insurance, daycare for children
I'll grant you daycare, but pensions have declined since 1970, and healthcare has been offered since the 1950's - although it's costs to the employer have increased.
Any increase in benefits is moderated by wage stagnation, and productivity has far outstripped increased benefits.
It's pretty obvious to me.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:16 pm to Zach
zach You are right I want all income to be taxed and put in a pool for the general welfare. Whether Trump pays a lot more than Joe mail clerk is irrelevant. One pool for all Americans
Call it socialism I guess
Call it socialism I guess
This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:29 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
Call it socialism
It's socialism.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:30 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
Thats absurd. You pay the tax on all income so that all Americans are covered. You may pay in 5 and get 7 or vice versa. Just another way high income is sheltered. I guess rich people make laws to benefit themselves.
Good lord. What you just described is a straight up welfare program.
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:32 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
quote:
zach You are right I want all income to be taxed and put in a pool for the general welfare. Whether Trump pays a lot more than Joe mail clerk is irrelevant. One pool for all Americans Call it socialism I guess
If you do that then in reality, there's no reason to even have a SS tax. You just created a federal welfare program with no attachment to what one earned as they lived.
Hence, you might as well just call it that and raise standard taxes.
Of course, folks like you don't want to do that because you want the farce appearance that SS is still something people "earn" throughout their lives while making it nothing of the sort.
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