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re: Haitians seeks reparations from France: "All whites have "blood on their hands"
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:14 am to 4cubbies
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:14 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I’ve never seen “delta” used in that context
It doesn't change the meaning of the word
quote:
My ignorance of Taiwanese history doesn’t have anything to do with Haiti.
Taiwan and Haiti were roughly on the same economic footing in 1947
Taiwan actually has exponentially fewer natural resources than Haiti
Their PCGDP around 1950-1960 was both around $1500
Today? Haiti[s PCGDP is around $1300
Taiwan's is about $33k today
1
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:16 am to udtiger
quote:Haiti is in the bottom half-dozen countries in the world, in terms of GDP and economic development.
How about as a comparison you look at EVERY SINGLE AFRICAN COUNTRY with a colonial past?
It is not unreasonable to ask whether that might be tied to the fact that it spent two centuries paying the biggest part of its GDP to France every year, as protection money to prevent France from invading again.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:17 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I’m trying to understand your point.
About as hard as Cathy Newman did with Peterson.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:19 am to udtiger
quote:
Taking its colonial history into consideration, I’m unsure how anyone can be surprised by where Haiti stands today
Do you comprehend how stupid this sounds?
Its shitty talking point politics. Its meaningless.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:19 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:
quote:
How about as a comparison you look at EVERY SINGLE AFRICAN COUNTRY with a colonial past?
Haiti is in the bottom half-dozen countries in the world, in terms of GDP and economic development.
It is not unreasonable to ask whether that might be tied to the fact that it spent two centuries paying the biggest part of its GDP to France every year, as protection money to prevent France from invading again
If their situation was unique, I would agree.
It isn't.
At all.
The fact that all of these other colonial "victims" have had the same (or very similar) outcomes means this is not a factor in its development (or lack thereof)
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 10:37 am
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:19 am to SouthEasternKaiju
One interesting aspect of this is that the Haitian Revolution caused tens of thousands of Haitians to immigrate to New Orleans between 1803-1804, almost doubling the population of New Orleans. These Haitians came over as free people of color. Therefore, any descendants that they had would not be eligible for any reparations from the US, if this ever came to be.
There's got to be thousands of blacks in La. who are descendants of these free people of color, and they are gonna be pissed when they find out that they are not eligible for reparations.
There's got to be thousands of blacks in La. who are descendants of these free people of color, and they are gonna be pissed when they find out that they are not eligible for reparations.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:21 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:
It is not unreasonable to ask whether that might be tied to the fact that it spent two centuries paying the biggest part of its GDP to France every year, as protection money to prevent France from invading again.
We're not having this discussion in the 1950's, though.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:21 am to SlowFlowPro
Taiwan vs Haiti is not really a fair comparison.
Taiwan in 1940 had a population of less than 6mm people. By 1950, that population had been supplemented with more than a million of the most-educated and -productive citizens of mainland China, as the Nationalists fled the Communists.
Haiti had no comparable influx of human capital.
Taiwan in 1940 had a population of less than 6mm people. By 1950, that population had been supplemented with more than a million of the most-educated and -productive citizens of mainland China, as the Nationalists fled the Communists.
Haiti had no comparable influx of human capital.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:23 am to udtiger
quote:Other modern countries have been forced to pay centuries of protection money to their former slavemasters?
It is not unreasonable to ask whether that might be tied to the fact that it spent two centuries paying the biggest part of its GDP to France every year, as protection money to prevent France from invading againquote:
If their situation was unique, I would agree. It isn't. At all.
Such a country may indeed exist, but I'm not familiar with one.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:25 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:
Taiwan in 1940 had a population of less than 6mm people. By 1950, that population had been supplemented with more than a million of the most-educated and -productive citizens of mainland China, as the Nationalists fled the Communists.
Haiti had no comparable influx of human capital.
Again, nobody is arguing Haiti should be on the economic level as Taiwan
Just that the gap (to not confuse cubbies) in Taiwan and Haiti created since 1947 has frick all to do with "colonialism". There is no reason Haiti shouldn't be on the economic level as your average Caribbean country.
Instead, Haiti is Hell on Earth and bottom-5 biggest shithole.
*ETA: there are actual reasons why most African shitholes are that way. Haiti doesn't have these issues.
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 10:26 am
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Again, nobody is arguing Haiti should be on the economic level as Taiwan
Agreed, but I think it's fair to expect it's PCGDP to rise. Instead it fell.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:28 am to Azkiger
quote:
Agreed, but I think it's fair to expect it's PCGDP to rise. Instead it fell.
It's incomprehensible that their PCGDP fell after they stopped making these payments to France.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Not really hard to understand. In the Duvalier family, the Haitian people were ruled by the worst kleptocracy in the Western Hemisphere.
It's incomprehensible that their PCGDP fell after they stopped making these payments to France.
Who supported the Duvaliers and kept them in power?
Haiti is a shithole. No one sane contends otherwise. But it is equally insane to pretend that the US and France didn't provide both the shovel and a good part of the feces.
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 10:35 am
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:35 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:
But it is equally insane to pretend that the US and France didn't provide a good part of the feces.
Weird, over the past 70 years nations have risen and fallen, then there is Haiti which hasnt ever risen high enough to fall.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:35 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:
Not really hard to understand. In the Duvalier family, the Haitian people were ruled by the worst kleptocracy in the Western Hemisphere.
Who supported the Duvaliers and kept them in power?
What does this have to do with Haiti post 1947 worsening?
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:36 am to Azkiger
quote:
What does this have to do with Haiti post 1947 worsening
Or colonialism that ended a century and a half prior?
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:38 am to OzonaOkapi
quote:
Other modern countries have been forced to pay centuries of protection money to their former slavemasters?
Such a country may indeed exist, but I'm not familiar with one.
I am not aware of such an arrangement either.
And if Haiti was alone in its post-colonial outcome, then you could point to that arrangement as a cause.
They're not.
So you can't.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:41 am to Green Eggs 88
quote:
"All whites SHOULD have "blood on their hands BY NOW"
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:42 am to BlueFalcon
That's more than a glow!
Posted on 4/21/24 at 10:46 am to Azkiger
quote:The US put the Duvaliers in power after 1947, and they ruled for three decades while stealing everything they could find to steal.quote:What does this have to do with Haiti post 1947 worsening?
Not really hard to understand. In the Duvalier family, the Haitian people were ruled by the worst kleptocracy in the Western Hemisphere.
Who supported the Duvaliers and kept them in power?
Haiti never developed a middle class, which is the basis for a successful economy. Then they got completely flattened by two or three of the worst hurricanes in the history of the Caribbean, plus a couple of nasty earthquakes. It seems like every time they started to get their feet under them again, something chopped them off at the knees again. they never got the chance to develop even the most-basic infrastructure, before the next disaster destroyed what little they had managed to build.
In all seriousness, Haiti may be the most-unlucky nation in modern history. Sure, some nations have certainly experienced worst for a few years or even a few decades, but Haiti has gotten the short end of the stick over a scale of a few hundred years. That doesn't mean that we are obligated to try to fix the country or anything, but it would be silly to pretend that Haiti's history has been something other than what it has really been.
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 10:50 am
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