Started By
Message
locked post

Five 9th Circuit Judges Dish Out Ruthless Take Down to Anti-Trump Travel Ban Decision

Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:18 pm
Posted by DragginFly
Under the Mountain;By the Lake
Member since Oct 2014
3598 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:18 pm
LawNewz
quote:

In one of the most ruthless opinions issued of fellow panel judges, five judges from across the political spectrum in the Ninth Circuit went out of their way to issue an opinion about a dismissed appeal, to remind everybody just how embarrassingly bad the prior Ninth Circuit stay panel decision was on Trump’s travel ban. The five judges included the famed, and most respected intellectual amongst the Ninth Circuit, Alex Kozinski. The others included Jay Bybee, Consuelo Callahan, Carlos Bea and Sandra Ikuta. Nobody other than the original panel came to the defense of the original panel decision, a less than promising start for future approvals of district court interference in Presidential immigration policy.

The language of the opinion was almost Scalian: the five Ninth Circuit judges noted their “obligation to correct” the “manifest” errors so bad that the “fundamental” errors “confound Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit precedent.” The district court questioned any judge issuing a “nationwide TRO” “without making findings of fact or conclusions of law” on the merits of the matter and conducting published opinions on seminal matters of national security based on “oral argument by phone involving four time zones.”

Aside from the procedural defects of the process, the five panel jurists then noted the deep legal problems with the panel’s order: its a-historicity, it’s abdication of precedent, and its usurpation of Constitutionally delegated Presidential rights. Mirroring much of the Boston judge’s decision, the five judges then detail and outline what other critics, skeptics and commentators have noted of the prior panel decision, including critical commentary from liberal law professors and scribes Jonathan Turley, Alan Dershowitz, and Jeffrey Toobin. The original 3-judge panel “neglected or overlooked critical cases by the Supreme Court and by our making clear that when we are reviewing decisions about who may be admitted into the United States, we must defer to the judgment of the political branches.” Of particular note, the five panel judges note how the 3-judge panel decision in “compounding its omission” of Supreme Court decisions and relevant sister Circuit precedents, also “missed all of our own cases” on the subject. The 5 judges conclude the panel engaged in a “clear misstatement of law” so bad it compelled “vacating” an opinion usually mooted by a dismissed case.


The five judges still weren’t finished. Next up, the ludicrous suggestion the President had to produce classified and national security information to explain and explicate publicly all the empirical reasons he felt the order needed for safety rationales. As the five judges panel note, judges are not New York Times editors here to substitute for the President at their unelected will. A gavel is not a gun; a judge is not the commander in chief. And, again the 5 panel judges noted the Supreme Court specifically condemned just this kind of demand from judges — demanding classified information to second guess executively privileged decisions. As the court concluded, “the President does not have to come forward with supporting documentation to explain the basis for the Executive Order.”

The panel wraps up its ruthless condemnation of its fellow 3-panel decision by noting their errors are “many and obvious,” including the failure to even “apply the proper standard” of review. As the five judges wisely note: “we are judges, not Platonic guardians,” and the great losers of the 3-panel decision are those that believe elections matter and the rule of law deserves respect, as both were sacrificed for results-oriented judges who ignored the law and evaded the historical precedent to try to reverse the policy outcome of the recent election.


"And by the way, please don't break us up".

edit: removed dupe paragraph.
This post was edited on 3/17/17 at 4:43 pm
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:19 pm to
Where the frick were they when it mattered?

oh.....playing politics?

frick them.
Posted by joeyb147
Member since Jun 2009
16019 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:22 pm to
Posted by LSUwag
Florida man
Member since Jan 2007
17319 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:28 pm to
Ther are some very good Judges out there. Unfortunately, they are outnumbered.
Posted by papasmurf1269
Hells Pass
Member since Apr 2005
20893 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:30 pm to
The woman who was on Tucker Carlson show last night needs to read this article
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20891 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:31 pm to
Intellectual dishonesty at its worst. They'll probably put out another similar statement....


After it goes to the supreme Court and the EO gets re-enacted.

It's not integrity that's driving these guys but intellectual "told ya so..." after the fact. They're the ultimate talking heads that were trash talking the winning team that won in a huge upset that was previously bashing them before the win and swayed by the fickle mob.

Also they're swayed by the fact that they might get cut in half if they don't behave.
This post was edited on 3/17/17 at 4:33 pm
Posted by TigernMS12
Member since Jan 2013
5530 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

Where the frick were they when it mattered?

oh.....playing politics?

frick them.


Do you understand that there are 29 judges on the 9th circuit, and that they are assigned which cases they will hear randomly? They couldn't have done anything to change what happened; the case was decided by a panel of 3 of the 29 judges on the 9th.
This post was edited on 3/17/17 at 4:48 pm
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20891 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

you understand that there are 29 judges on the 9th circuit, and that they are assigned which cases they will hear randomly?


5/29 is still a worthless figure.

They have nothing to lose by speaking out and a lot for their egos to gain. Their opinions do nothing but show how smart they think they are.
Posted by TigernMS12
Member since Jan 2013
5530 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:40 pm to
quote:

5/29 is still a worthless figure.

They have nothing to lose by speaking out and a lot for their egos to gain. Their opinions do nothing but show how smart they think they are.


I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Your saying that they shouldn't give their opinion when a case comes through their court that they don't agree with?
This post was edited on 3/17/17 at 4:42 pm
Posted by joeyb147
Member since Jun 2009
16019 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:41 pm to
quote:

Intellectual dishonesty at its worst. They'll probably put out another similar statement....


After it goes to the supreme Court and the EO gets re-enacted.

It's not integrity that's driving these guys but intellectual "told ya so..." after the fact. They're the ultimate talking heads that were trash talking the winning team that won in a huge upset that was previously bashing them before the win and swayed by the fickle mob.

Also they're swayed by the fact that they might get cut in half if they don't behave.

this is a response from the 1st travel ban after the en banc was denied
quote:

Nobody other than the original panel came to the defense of the original panel decision, a less than promising start for future approvals of district court interference in Presidential immigration policy.
This post was edited on 3/17/17 at 4:48 pm
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20891 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:42 pm to
quote:

Your saying that they shouldn't give their opinion when a case comes through their court that they don't agree with?


Let me put it this way.

Legally speaking, what did they accomplish by doing this?
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
19692 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:44 pm to
That was brutal, and very true. Draconian sanctions throws himself off the roof and the world improves.
Posted by TigernMS12
Member since Jan 2013
5530 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:45 pm to
quote:

so five of the 11 judges from en banc responded with this message


Actually, the case was never heard en banc. The motion for rehearing in en banc was denied and these five judges issued an opinion to that denial.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:46 pm to
Genuinely surprised Kozinski joined this opinion
Posted by TigernMS12
Member since Jan 2013
5530 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

Let me put it this way.

Legally speaking, what did they accomplish by doing this?


Laid out the proper arguments from a judges point of view for the lawyers that take this case up the chain. You must not be familiar with how often dissenting opinions have became the majority down the road over the course of our history.
This post was edited on 3/17/17 at 4:49 pm
Posted by joeyb147
Member since Jun 2009
16019 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

Actually, the case was never heard en banc. The motion for rehearing in en banc was denied and these five judges issued an opinion to that denial.
your right. went back and edited.
Posted by Pax Regis
Alabama
Member since Sep 2007
12932 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

Legally speaking, what did they accomplish by doing this?



They are signaling to the district judges to stop playing politics and be judges because they aren't going to tolerate it. Unclear whether they have enough like minded colleagues to matter.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20891 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:52 pm to
quote:

You must not be familiar with how often dissenting opinions have became the majority down the road over the course of our history


That's a lot of speculation.

So in other words, nothing really changes after they put this out correct?
Posted by Damone
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
32711 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:56 pm to
I'm not, the first decision was just really THAT bad.
Posted by TigernMS12
Member since Jan 2013
5530 posts
Posted on 3/17/17 at 4:58 pm to
quote:

That's a lot of speculation.

So in other words, nothing really changes after they put this out correct?


They didn't just "put this out" on their own. It's nothing more than a dissenting opinion to the majorities when they decided to deny the motion for rehearing. It's simply a dissenting opinion. They have the right to do it, and in fact, if judges are going to vote in a case, then they need to explain why they voted they way they did. When a case doesn't go the way you think it should, do you want the judges that voted your way (and lost) to remain silent, or put out their reasoning for voting?

And it's not so much speculation. If this goes to SCOTUS, the same arguments made in this opinion will be made before SCOTUS. It's absolute fact that dissenting opinions have become majorities over the course of SCOTUS's history.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 3Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram