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re: Ex-Facebook Exec Warns Of ‘Revolution’ Caused By Job Automation
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:35 pm to pcolatiger28
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:35 pm to pcolatiger28
Many industries regulate themselves and those regulations come from practitioners. In those cases, automation will grow for support tasks, but not to the extent that those regulators will render themselves obsolete.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:35 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
Its going to create new jobs and push people to new areas of industry.
Its going to be a slow process.
This.
Trucks will still need a human engineer like a train does. Someone will have to be in the truck incase of computer failure or mechanical problems.
If a McDonald's automates, It'll still need an IT guy and a mechanic.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:38 pm to Breesus
quote:
Someone will have to be in the truck incase of computer failure or mechanical problems.
I'm pretty sure that's not the plan.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:42 pm to Blob Fish
Except it's the real innovators who are making the darkest predictions. We're just listening to them.
These predictions are originating from inside the industries themselves, not from the masses.
These predictions are originating from inside the industries themselves, not from the masses.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:44 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
I'm pretty sure that's not the plan
What are they going to do the first time their software fails or the truck needs a mechanic specialized in that trucks automation?
If it's going from Mississippi to California they'll tell it to pull over and then have a guy drive all the way out there.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:44 pm to Blob Fish
quote:
Lol one of their pieces of evidence that doctors will be replaced is the frequency people use WebMD.
It's funny. The phenomenon you describe is a perfect parallel for this thread itself. Everyone who has read a couple of blogs and articles that say "OXFORD STUDY ZOMG" is now entitled to say "Sorry, but you're ignorant" and then post some shitty infographic.
To all the doomsayers in this thread, I have a question for you. Why is unemployment 4.6% right now if rampant automation is displacing jobs overnight?
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:54 pm to Lou Pai
Because we are only just understanding the degree to which AI is capable of replacing human labor. It really is in its infancy.
And no one is claiming that rampant automation is replacing jobs overnight right now (to my knowledge). We're saying that we're on the cusp of groundbreaking technological advances which will potentially prove more cost effective than human labor for a majority of jobs.
The transition won't be immediate, but a sufficient number of experts are warning us of a coming transition that it needs to at least be considered now. If we wait until it occurs and we don't have a plan in place, it will be too late to develop one.
I'm not in the 5-10 years away crowd. But within 2 generations, there is sufficient reason to believe that the majority of jobs which exist today will become obsolete. New jobs will always rise up, but the rate of new job creation will need to grow substantially in order to replace all of the jobs at risk of being replaced by automation.
And not to be too much of a snood about it, but I've read significantly more than 'a couple of blogs and articles'. That's a woefully inadequate description of my personal familiarity with the topic. I won't speak for anyone else though.
And no one is claiming that rampant automation is replacing jobs overnight right now (to my knowledge). We're saying that we're on the cusp of groundbreaking technological advances which will potentially prove more cost effective than human labor for a majority of jobs.
The transition won't be immediate, but a sufficient number of experts are warning us of a coming transition that it needs to at least be considered now. If we wait until it occurs and we don't have a plan in place, it will be too late to develop one.
I'm not in the 5-10 years away crowd. But within 2 generations, there is sufficient reason to believe that the majority of jobs which exist today will become obsolete. New jobs will always rise up, but the rate of new job creation will need to grow substantially in order to replace all of the jobs at risk of being replaced by automation.
And not to be too much of a snood about it, but I've read significantly more than 'a couple of blogs and articles'. That's a woefully inadequate description of my personal familiarity with the topic. I won't speak for anyone else though.
This post was edited on 8/7/17 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:56 pm to Lou Pai
I work for a large big pharma corporation and there is some automation, but no one is investing billions in capital to replace all of the $20/hr or less workers we have on site. It is hard to get them to replace old HPLCs. We've had two pieces of equipment waiting on IT for over a year now because we run so lean in man power just to save a few dollars. Full scale automation of just my work site would take billions and decades. It will eventually happen, but probably not in the next 50 yrs. There are many other industries such as mine.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 9:58 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Deep learning algorithm does as well as dermatologists in identifying skin cancer:
So?
Dermatologists do a lot more than look at moles.
Someone still has to remove the cancer.
There are lots of different types of skin cancer that have different treatments.
Someone has to oversee the robot. Planes fly themselves, but there's still a dude in the cockpit.
The role of the doctor will change. AND there may be more business for dermatologists bc everyone with an iPhone will know they need their lesion removed.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:03 pm to funnystuff
There are many academics who see no evidence to suggest that this is a major threat to overall employment, and even if it does, whether or not that matters.
Until we reach sentient, true AGI, I'm not worried about it (And even then, we will have bigger fish to fry).
Until we reach sentient, true AGI, I'm not worried about it (And even then, we will have bigger fish to fry).
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:05 pm to funnystuff
Agreed, the arguement isn't where we are now but the trajectory we're headed. And as old industries die, others rise up so it's not all doom and gloom but certainly something to be considered. And as those new industries rise up human labor will need to compete with AI/tech which is only going to become cheaper and more advanced.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:09 pm to funnystuff
As have I.
It's incredibly arrogant to think you can just hand wave a bunch of jobs away. The same people that say that stuff like to assume that something like public accounting will be automated away. People are just totally ignorant about the depth and dynamism of the service economy we have.
It's incredibly arrogant to think you can just hand wave a bunch of jobs away. The same people that say that stuff like to assume that something like public accounting will be automated away. People are just totally ignorant about the depth and dynamism of the service economy we have.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:09 pm to Lou Pai
Sure, I'm not disputing that there are. Every scientific question will lead to dissenting opinions and no outcome is absolute. It's why I always try to say 'possibility' and 'probability' rather than certainty (though I'll concede that there are many sharing my position who are more absolute in their language - and I'm far from perfect at it as well).
In whatever case, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. But if we're taking this discussion to AGI dimensions, then the time to worry about it absolutely needs to be long before we reach it. If AGI/ASI is possible (big if), there is no bigger fish to fry.
In whatever case, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. But if we're taking this discussion to AGI dimensions, then the time to worry about it absolutely needs to be long before we reach it. If AGI/ASI is possible (big if), there is no bigger fish to fry.
This post was edited on 8/7/17 at 10:11 pm
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:10 pm to Blob Fish
Spoken like a true doc. I'm withya brother. Take the lying out of medicine and then tech can take over.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:11 pm to DavidTheGnome
I'm way down the list. I am I.T./tech support. I'll keep the A.I. running smoothly for you guys.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:17 pm to Blob Fish
quote:
So?
Dermatologists do a lot more than look at moles.
Someone still has to remove the cancer.
There are lots of different types of skin cancer that have different treatments.
Someone has to oversee the robot. Planes fly themselves, but there's still a dude in the cockpit.
The role of the doctor will change. AND there may be more business for dermatologists bc everyone with an iPhone will know they need their lesion removed.
The highly skilled, highly specialized doctor will still be needed. The topic is more relevant for the support staff that perform functions that could be automated or their activity becomes redundant. Whether those are administrative functions, nurses, etc.
Administrative - Patient records and account keeping is an area ripe for automation that only has regulatory hurdles in its way at the moment.
Nurses - Newer, more efficient medical treatments could be introduced that reduce patient care time (which reduces required nursing hours) or entirely new procedures may make a nurses job redundant. Maybe you can just directly see the doctor and don't have to go through intensive prepping and other tasks that nurses perform.
These are just a couple examples.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:30 pm to cameronml
Ironically, some people think specialized tasks will be automated one day and that the humanizing aspects and judgment calls will be handled by physicians.
Many times the best course of action is uncertain, and decisIons are made based on probability, cost, risk, and the wills of the patient. That will be tough to automate.
Many times the best course of action is uncertain, and decisIons are made based on probability, cost, risk, and the wills of the patient. That will be tough to automate.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:38 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:This is probably the ideal situation, but then I find it odd that so much focus is on manufacturing jobs and bringing them, when technology has supplanted more manufacturing jobs than anything else.
Its going to create new jobs and push people to new areas of industry.
In other words, I think you're right, but our priorities are misplaced to maximize this.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:39 pm to Breesus
quote:And someone to load the robots with the meat, vegetables, fries, etc. to make the food. Robots require a support staff.
If a McDonald's automates, It'll still need an IT guy and a mechanic.
Posted on 8/7/17 at 10:53 pm to Blob Fish
quote:I actually think most of those will be fairly easy to automate, or at least the initial aspect, and could eliminate cognitive biases that even highly intelligent physicians are not immune to.
Many times the best course of action is uncertain, and decisIons are made based on probability, cost, risk, and the wills of the patient. That will be tough to automate.
As an example, there was a study that is presented in the book Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman.
Physicians were presented a treatment and were randomly assigned to two groups. The only difference is that the treatment was presented with a 10% mortality rate or a 90% survival rate, which means the same thing.
HOWEVER, despite meaning the same thing, physicians presented with the 90% survival rate were like 2 or 3 times more likely to recommend that treatment than the physicians presented with the 10% mortality rate.
A machine that makes decisions would not be prone to the framing effects that impair our decision-making like in the example above.
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