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Message
re: Dash cam video of Philando Castile killing
Posted on 6/22/17 at 5:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 6/22/17 at 5:01 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Basically that he didn't know what the guy was doing.
Incorrect. He knew that he wasn't listening to directions.
0
Posted on 6/22/17 at 5:48 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
YOU as a private citizen shoot someone, you are assumed innocent until proven otherwise. If you claim "I feared for my life"
If i did what that cop did, I'd be in prison.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 5:58 pm to the808bass
quote:
The state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the police officer was not authorized to use deadly force.
The state had to prove the same thing with civilians.
Posted on 6/22/17 at 5:59 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
If i did what that cop did, I'd be in prison.
Like make a traffic stop without the authority to do so, then yes.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 11:37 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
That's a poor way of looking at it.
And reduces American citizens to East German mentality. Head down, don't question the stop or don't question unreasonable searches of your car or don't question if the cop is asking you to do something ridiculous.
quote:
That's a poor way of looking at it.
And reduces American citizens to East German mentality. Head down, don't question the stop or don't question unreasonable searches of your car or don't question if the cop is asking you to do something ridiculous.
WTF are you talking about? Nearly all the high profile cases where cops are video taped shooting someone seem to show a suspect not complying with standard requests that most LEO's are trained to use in daily interactions with the public.
I'll tell ya what, go slap that badge on for a few months and get back to me.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 11:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
If i did what that cop did, I'd be in prison.
This is true, because you do not have the legal authority that a LEO has.
It's a crying shame how stupid so many Americans have gotten over the years.
When you are pulled over by police, you are DETAINED, which means that officer has the right to give you certain orders and to effect compliance.
When it is known that a weapon is the mix, the bar gets higher.
This is another example of liberal stupidity. Your morons scream about gun control, then you take the side of a gun owner who exercised none. Anyone with a half a god damned brain knows that if you have a gun and a cop is yelling at you "stop going for it" as you're reaching around behind your back, you stop fricking moving. Not doing exactly that is using poor judgement at a minimum.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:28 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
how about just once the cops show some damn restraint and proper training. not to mention why did they handcuff his girlfriend and put her in the back of a car with her 4yr old daughter?
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:30 pm to hawkeye007
quote:
how about just once the cops show some damn restraint and proper training.
What the hell are you talking about?
quote:
hy did they handcuff his girlfriend and put her in the back of a car with her 4yr old daughter?
Um that actually IS proper procedure. So you both want to bitch about proper procedure and bitch when it is used. I think you just want to bitch about cops.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:47 pm to Five0
quote:
The state had to prove the same thing with civilians.
Yes and no. Police can assume someone is going for a gun without seeing a gun and can shoot them in "self-defense." Citizens generally cannot do that. We assume police are going to have to kill people. So no threat needs to be present and they're still seen as justified. You can argue this legally six ways to Sunday. But we know it's different and more than just for legal reasons.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:54 pm to the808bass
quote:
Police can assume someone is going for a gun without seeing a gun and can shoot them in "self-defense." Citizens generally cannot do that.
Wrong and wrong and wrong again.
Do you ever tire of being wrong?
Whether a LEO or not, self defense relies on a "reasonable belief" compoment.
A LEO can't just shoot someone and say "thought he had a gun" and walk away.
And absolutely if you as civilian come across someone who reasonably gives you reason to believe your life is in danger you can shoot them to protect your own life even if you don't see a gun.
It's reasonable belief. Not "just take the cops word for it"
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:57 pm to StrongSafety
I rewatched the patrol car video...
That little girls courgae crushes me. No child should be able to digest and comprehend and then offer an adult refugee.
The fact that she's four and she realized that her town is unsafe and that she wants her family to move is glaring. I don't think we realize how much povert and crime forces some young kids and people to grow up... and grow up a lot fast than they probably should.
I would have that young girl in therapy sessions until she is 18. Wouldn't be shocked if she had PTSD
That little girls courgae crushes me. No child should be able to digest and comprehend and then offer an adult refugee.
The fact that she's four and she realized that her town is unsafe and that she wants her family to move is glaring. I don't think we realize how much povert and crime forces some young kids and people to grow up... and grow up a lot fast than they probably should.
I would have that young girl in therapy sessions until she is 18. Wouldn't be shocked if she had PTSD
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:58 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
A LEO can't just shoot someone and say "thought he had a gun" and walk away.
So if I give you a counter example, an example of a police officer claiming "thought he had a gun" and the officer was completely wrong and did not face charges, you will agree that you're incorrect?
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:58 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
there isn't a platform big enough for me to bitch about cops. I know there are many great police officers out there. But the amount of shite that the bad ones get away with is far to much. Also the fact that if a cop feels in danger he is aloud to take a life is total bullshite. if you don't want the danger that comes with the job find another one.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 12:59 pm to the808bass
quote:
So if I give you a counter example, an example of a police officer claiming "thought he had a gun" and the officer was completely wrong and did not face charges, you will agree that you're incorrect?
What? THat wasn't what I said at all.
The reasonable belief ALWAYS applies. IOW did the cop reasonably believe the person had a gun? Or did he make that up to cover his arse? My bet is in your example, reasonable people also would have thought the person had a gun.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:07 pm to the808bass
quote:
You can argue this legally six ways to Sunday. But we know it's different and more than just for legal reasons.
No. You feel, not we know. Those of us that know, know better.
Feelings are neither right or wrong, but feelings are also not facts.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:08 pm to Five0
quote:
Feelings are neither right or wrong, but feelings are also not facts.
So stastistics don't back me up? This is one of my biggest issues with you cop defenders. You can't admit obvious things.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:14 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
reasonable belief ALWAYS applies. IOW did the cop reasonably believe the person had a gun
You're playing semantic games now.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:16 pm to Five0
Here is pretty much the final word on the myth that cops just look for excuses to kill a person, or blacks specifically
In 74 percent of all fatal police shootings, the individuals had already fired shots, brandished a gun or attacked a person with a weapon or their bare hands, according to an analysis of actions immediately preceding the shootings, which draws on reports from law enforcement agencies and local media coverage. These 595 cases include fatal shootings that followed a wide range of violent crimes, including shootouts, stabbings, hostage situations, carjackings and assaults.
THe study also found that
The 5 percent of cases that are often second-guessed include individuals who police said failed to follow their orders, made sudden movements or were accidentally shot. In another 4 percent of cases, The Post was unable to determine the circumstances of the shootings because of limited information or ongoing investigations.
LINK
So in the aggregate, FIVE fricking percent of police shootings are even somewhat questionable, let alone a LEO who was for sure in the wrong.
Shove your complaints up your arse.
In 74 percent of all fatal police shootings, the individuals had already fired shots, brandished a gun or attacked a person with a weapon or their bare hands, according to an analysis of actions immediately preceding the shootings, which draws on reports from law enforcement agencies and local media coverage. These 595 cases include fatal shootings that followed a wide range of violent crimes, including shootouts, stabbings, hostage situations, carjackings and assaults.
THe study also found that
The 5 percent of cases that are often second-guessed include individuals who police said failed to follow their orders, made sudden movements or were accidentally shot. In another 4 percent of cases, The Post was unable to determine the circumstances of the shootings because of limited information or ongoing investigations.
LINK
So in the aggregate, FIVE fricking percent of police shootings are even somewhat questionable, let alone a LEO who was for sure in the wrong.
Shove your complaints up your arse.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:29 pm to the808bass
quote:
So stastistics don't back me up?
Statistics do not apply to individual cases. Statistics do apply to the task of making a general narrative accepted as some sort of truth.
quote:
This is one of my biggest issues with you cop defenders. You can't admit obvious things.
quote:
quote: I think the guy went for his wallet to show his license and got shot. That's exactly what happened.
quote:
That's exactly what happened. Not according to the 12 jurors. People wanted an arrest in this case and they got it. People wanted charges pressed and they got it. People wanted a conviction and didn't get it, but complain the system is rigged. You win some and you lose some. HEEEY HEEEY HEEEY
quote:
quote: Not according to the 12 jurors. False.
quote:
quote: False. So the found him guilty?
Right.
Posted on 6/23/17 at 1:30 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Here is pretty much the final word on the myth that cops just look for excuses to kill a person, or blacks specifically
I agree that this is a myth.
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