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Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:28 pm to MrCarton
quote:
This jumble of private and public real estate creates significant administrative, political, and legal difficulties
I think that pretty much precludes selling the land to the highest bidder.
But why are we even talking about tribal lands?
I thought the first plan was to route it north of Bismark. What happened to that plan?
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:34 pm to MrCarton
quote:
pipeline builders should be forced to obtain drilling rights
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:34 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
I think that pretty much precludes selling the land to the highest bidder.
How so? Private land owners already exist within that system. Why can't the rest be sold to a private entity? That would immediately clarify who is in the right here, as the DAP would need rights granted from every land owner involved.
I believe this issue isn't even about tribal land, but the possibility that malfunctions in the pipeline could harm tribal land in the future.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:37 pm to Ag Zwin
Looks like we have another "let me explain how it is" guy.
Hot Tip: I was discussing how it should be. Not how it was, is, or will be. I was not discussing law, the constitution, case law or precedent. I don't care about any of that, it is beyond the scope of my comments or concern.
So feel free to "explain how any of this works", just don't assume I care.
Hot Tip: I was discussing how it should be. Not how it was, is, or will be. I was not discussing law, the constitution, case law or precedent. I don't care about any of that, it is beyond the scope of my comments or concern.
So feel free to "explain how any of this works", just don't assume I care.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:39 pm to MrCarton
quote:
How so?
I'm assuming this:
quote:
This jumble of private and public real estate creates significant administrative, political, and legal difficulties
...might make obtaining clear title an issue. Plus, I'm not sure you could force sovereign tribes to sell.
quote:
Why can't the rest be sold to a private entity? That would immediately clarify who is in the right here, as the DAP would need rights granted from every land owner involved.
This is all quite beyond the point anyway, all you need is a contract for a ROW agreement.
quote:
I believe this issue isn't even about tribal land, but the possibility that malfunctions in the pipeline could harm tribal land in the future.
Actually it started out as the possibility that malfunctions in the pipeline could harm private land north of Bismark, as well as drinking water supplies for the city of Bismark, in the future.
As per usual, when people didn't want it in their backyard, they re-routed it to the Indian's backyard. Why was it so easy to get the pipeline rerouted the first time, but so impossible the second?
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:40 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
But why are we even talking about tribal lands?
I thought the first plan was to route it north of Bismark. What happened to that plan?
I have no idea man. This shouldn't be an issue at all, but we have a combination of corruption in local and state government, Shady businessmen who used ED in at least on state to make some coin, and a collection of indian "activists" who have made a living pedaling 160 year old sob stories and lobbying for federal funds while bilking millions upon millions from their "tribes" through casino deals.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:43 pm to MrCarton
Pipeline companies are not drilling companies. One is a producer, and one is a transporter. The latter negotiate drilling rights; the former negotiate right of way.
You may not have intended it, but you sound like one of those people who just say "the oil company" when referring to everything from the well to the pump. This isn't Mexico (or Venezuela, or Saudi,...)
It matters because ignorance of how these things work means that people who have nothing to do with an issue at hand get painted with a broad brush as being complicit. Eminent domain issues are controversial enough without mixing in incomplete information.
You may not have intended it, but you sound like one of those people who just say "the oil company" when referring to everything from the well to the pump. This isn't Mexico (or Venezuela, or Saudi,...)
It matters because ignorance of how these things work means that people who have nothing to do with an issue at hand get painted with a broad brush as being complicit. Eminent domain issues are controversial enough without mixing in incomplete information.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:44 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
legal difficulties
...might make obtaining clear title an issue. Plus, I'm not sure you could force sovereign tribes to sell.
quote:
oh yeah yeah I getcha. title will be a huge mess. That doesn't mean it shouldn't or couldn't be done, but I understand your point.
quote:
This is all quite beyond the point anyway, all you need is a contract for a ROW agreement.
Word. I don't know the lingo, I am just proposing that nobody should be doing anything on another person's land without express consent or contract. legal ROW works for me.
quote:
Actually it started out as the possibility that malfunctions in the pipeline could harm private land north of Bismark, as well as drinking water supplies for the city of Bismark, in the future.
As per usual, when people didn't want it in their backyard, they re-routed it to the Indian's backyard. Why was it so easy to get the pipeline rerouted the first time, but so impossible the second?
Haha. Yeah I dunno man, Indian land is pretty well protected. that may very well he the case that they want to put the potential problems off on the indians. if so, that's kinda weak sauce, but It is not as if they are damaging indian land. Niw, if they try to weasel out of damages? Hammer that arse.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:47 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
Pipeline companies are not drilling companies. One is a producer, and one is a transporter. The latter negotiate drilling rights; the former negotiate right of way.
Dude. I seriously DGAF about the industry. it is completely irrelevant to my point. we could be talking about the sewing industry and what I said stands. Private property rights are private property rights. ROW, drilling rights, access rights, mineral rights, any other kind of use of another person's property should require an uncoerced contractual agreement between two consenting parties.
quote:
It matters because ignorance of how these things work means that people who have nothing to do with an issue at hand get painted with a broad brush as being complicit. Eminent domain issues are controversial enough without mixing in incomplete information.
It literally doesn't matter at all.
edit: but thanks for the info in all seriousness.
This post was edited on 12/6/16 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:49 pm to 14&Counting
frickers lost the war. This sovereign shite is stupid.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:52 pm to MrCarton
Until you needed a highway to drive your dying child to the hospital. (In the case of Eminent Domain).
Or until you are beat up in a mob just because you were covering a protest (in the case of it not mattering to differentiate).
Well, crap. Now I see your edit, and I have to retract my insult. Make up our minds. Are we mad at each other or not?
This post was edited on 12/6/16 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:56 pm to TigersHuskers
quote:Compared to rail and especially trucking, pipelines are far and away the safest, least impactful method of transport. But, Warren Buffet owns the rail cars that transport the oil now, so here we are.
I love the environmental BS argument. Do most people realize how filthy these reservations are? Oil leaking from cars and heating tanks, hunting out of season and so on.
Plus, the pipeline was never set to run through tribal lands, so that whole angle is clearly bullshite.
So, Warren Buffet's business interests + typical protest hustlers looking for a payoff + Facebook idiots = this stupid shite.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:58 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
You really are a poster child for the uninformed left that argues only from emotion.
You must be new here or something duder.
quote:
Until you needed a highway to drive your dying child to the hospita
quote:
Or until you are beat up in a mob just because you were covering a protest (in the case of it not mattering to differentiate).
quote:
argues only from emotion
fricking moron. Why don't you use the search function for some of my threads before you make yourself look like more of an arse? I am one of the most conservative people on this board with many well developed and documented positions on property rights and Eminent Domain.
And stop being so emotional about ED why don't you?
This post was edited on 12/6/16 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 12/6/16 at 1:59 pm to MrCarton
Welp, I guess we are back to angry. Didn't get my edit in fast enough.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:00 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
Well, crap. Now I see your edit, and I have to retract my insult. Make up our minds. Are we mad at each other or not?
I dunno, which one sounds more fun?
I'll do a truce.
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:00 pm to Ag Zwin
Posted on 12/6/16 at 2:12 pm to MrCarton
quote:
fricking moron. Why don't you use the search function for some of my threads before you make yourself look like more of an arse? I am one of the most conservative people on this board with many well developed and documented positions on property rights and Eminent Domain.
One thing this article from The Hill notes is that the pipeline runs through area already designated for power lines etc. So the sacred ground angle is bullshite as its not impacting anything that hasn't already been developed. According this, all native tribes were consulted by US Army Core of Engineers held extensive public hearings.
LINK
Posted on 12/6/16 at 3:21 pm to MrCarton
quote:... should be left alone as the federal government and no other entity should be able to do nothing without tribal approval. Hasn't the white man's government fuuked us enough? We have been driven onto small parcels of (mostly useless) lands. Why not just leave us alone and put private owned business pipelines to the side of our lands???
It's not tough at all. Tribal lands should be...
Posted on 12/6/16 at 4:38 pm to MrCarton
why don't you run right over there and lethal force them, maybe yourself while your at it
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